abraham@kean.ucs.mun.ca (ABE ROSS) (11/24/90)
Has anyone run into any problems using a laptop on the seat-back table on airplanes? The first time I ever travelled with the laptop the stewardess told me that on some planes these tables were magnetized to keep things from slipping around on them and that the magnetization might affect the hard disk. Magntizing the table didn't make much sense since most of the plates, etc. are plastic. But, I didn't want to test her advice. Has anyone else ever heard of this?
bcttst1@abcom.ATT.COM (4684446 ) (11/30/90)
I believe the use of laptops on airplanes is prohibited since the laptops emit radio frequency radiation which may interfere with navigational, as well as other, on-board instrumentation. You would not that popular if you caused the plane to malfunction!
gt5302b@prism.gatech.EDU (R. Steve Walker) (11/30/90)
In article <2236@abcom.ATT.COM> bcttst1@abcom.ATT.COM (4684446 ) writes: > >I believe the use of laptops on airplanes is prohibited since the laptops >emit radio frequency radiation which may interfere with navigational, >as well as other, on-board instrumentation. > >You would not that popular if you caused the plane to malfunction! I have never been told not to use a laptop on a airplane. I've flown with most of the major carriers. I do know that some pilots prefer you not use a laptop for the above reasons. I am not aware of any rules against using laptops with any carrier. Please let me know if there are. Richard S. Walker Georgia Tech Research Institute GA Tech Box 35302 SWALKER@gtri01.gatech.edu (vm) Atlanta, GA 30332 swalker@vms62a.gatech.edu (vms) [404] 874-1886[W] gt5302b@prism.gatech.edu (unix) [404] 607-0958[H] 71021.1544@compuserve.com (cis)
jbrindle@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU (Joseph S. Brindley) (11/30/90)
In article <2236@abcom.ATT.COM> bcttst1@abcom.ATT.COM (4684446 ) writes: > >I believe the use of laptops on airplanes is prohibited since the laptops >emit radio frequency radiation which may interfere with navigational, >as well as other, on-board instrumentation. > >You would not that popular if you caused the plane to malfunction! This was an early fear expressed by ignorant airlines when laptops first came out but it is not grounded in fact as most, if not all, laptops have a FCC class b rating. I have used mine many times. No crashes yet! :-) -- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<*>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < jbrindle@polyslo.Calpoly.EDU * "Try not...Do. Do or Do not, > < Joe Brindley * there is not Try." > < "North to Alaska" * Yoda. >
barry@tiger1.Prime.COM (Barry Wolman) (11/30/90)
I've used a laptop on planes and have been on many flights where others
have used laptops ... I've never seen a steward(ess) ask anyone to stop
using a laptop. Nor have I seen anything in the seat back information
sheets that mentions laptops being outlawed. I seem to recall a ban
against using radios, but not laptops.
Barry
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry Wolman | barry@s66.prime.com
Principal Technical Consultant | 500 Old Connecticut Path
Prime Computer | Framingham, MA 01701
| 508/620-2800, ext. 1100
------------------------------------------------------------------------pwong@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Patrick Wong) (11/30/90)
Last time when I flew USAir, the taped announcement said that computers cannot be used only during takeoff and landing. There is no mention that computers cannot be used during cruising. The funny thing is that the announcement said no other electronic devices are allowed at all time. This may be a reason for you to get a laptop to kill the time on a plane. (Well, what about GameBoy?) Patrick Wong
abl@dart.ece.cmu.edu (Antonio Leal) (11/30/90)
> I seem to recall a ban against using radios, but not laptops.
Sounds right. Last time I flew, I had a CD player in my bag, at my
feet, and headphones on (long cord ...). The flight attendant checked
with me that it was _not_ a radio (tape or cd was ok).
My guess is that the FM decoding intermediate frequency puts out enough
noise in the bands they use. Or something ;-)
--
Antonio B. Leal Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering
Bell: [412] 268-2937 Carnegie Mellon University
Net: abl@ece.cmu.edu Pittsburgh, PA. 15213 U.S.A.PZ2@psuvm.psu.edu (David L. Phillips) (11/30/90)
In article <1990Nov29.225555.18236@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu>, pwong@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Patrick Wong) says: > >Last time when I flew USAir, the taped announcement said that computers >cannot be used only during takeoff and landing. There is no mention that >computers cannot be used during cruising. The funny thing is that the >announcement said no other electronic devices are allowed at all time. > You can also use tape players but not radios. The problem comes from the IF (intermediate frequency) radiation used in radios and TV sets to modulate the RF (radio frequencies) pulled in from the "ether." Tape players and computers do NOT generate those frequencies, or any significant radiation, for that matter.
brandonl@gold.gvg.tek.com (Brandon Lovested) (12/01/90)
In article <2236@abcom.ATT.COM> bcttst1@abcom.ATT.COM (4684446 ) writes: > >I believe the use of laptops on airplanes is prohibited since the laptops >emit radio frequency radiation which may interfere with navigational, >as well as other, on-board instrumentation. > There is no FAA regulation to prohibit the use of laptop computers onboard passenger aircraft, as long as they comply with basic FCC standards (Minimally Class A, and definitely Class B devices). Read the inserts in airline magazines that nobody reads....personal stereos, calculators, and portable computers are permitted to be used. Cellular phones, or communication products of any kind are not. I read this just a month ago on America West. On the other hand, unless you really have work to do, perhaps you shouldn't use a computer on plane.... Sometimes a small green light appears flashing over your seat. A stewardess will arrive, and ask you to refrain from nerd-like activities because it's promoting nausea in other passengers.... ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ============================================================================== BRANDON G. LOVESTED ::::=:::==::===:==== FOR EVERY VISION, Software Design Engineer ::::=:::==::===:==== THERE IS AN Grass Valley Group ::::=:::==::===:==== EQUAL AND OPPOSITE brandonl@gold.gvg.tek.com ::::=:::==::===:==== REVISION. ==============================================================================
blk@mitre.org (Brian L. Kahn) (12/01/90)
On a few recent flights, the stewardess announced a restriction against use of any electronic gadgets during takeoff or landing. Sounds quite reasonable to me. -- B< Brian Kahn blk@security.mitre.org "may the farce be with you"
astieber@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Anthony J Stieber) (12/05/90)
In article <17827@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt5302b@prism.gatech.EDU (R. Steve Walker) writes: >In article <2236@abcom.ATT.COM> bcttst1@abcom.ATT.COM (4684446 ) writes: >> >>I believe the use of laptops on airplanes is prohibited since the laptops >>emit radio frequency radiation which may interfere with navigational, >>as well as other, on-board instrumentation. >> >>You would not that popular if you caused the plane to malfunction! >I have never been told not to use a laptop on a airplane. [...] At one time there was a lot of hysteria about problems with RFI from laptops on aircraft, but that was several years ago. Before I flew it was suggested that laptop users talk to the pilot about using a laptop on board. The only two times I have flown, I asked the pilots if I could use my laptop in flight. Basicly they were pretty unconcerned about it. It was like they were thinking "Why are you asking me? I don't care." I did use my machine, and wasn't aware of any problems. I would still ask the pilot about using any kind of electronics that I bring on board the plane. Going through airport security was interesting. I asked to have my machine hand checked rather than go through the x-ray machine. They wanted me to turn the machine on, it's a Toshiba T1000 which boot from a ROM disk, the guard remarked on how quickly the machine came up. That was a bit scary, especially when they didn't ask to look in the large zippered pocket or the largish disk cases. The thing that most excited them were the cables and my shaver in my backpack which they saw as it went through the x-ray machine. They did ask to look in there, but lost interest after a quick look. I'm sure security will vary alot depending on which airport it is, where you're going, and whether there have been threats or problems recently. -- <-:(= Anthony Stieber astieber@csd4.csd.uwm.edu uwm!uwmcsd4!astieber
Renee@cup.portal.com (Renee Linda Roberts) (12/07/90)
Oh, the joys and woes of using a laptop on airplanes! I have not had much trouble at all on the airplanes, but WOW! talk about trouble on the ground. I travel frequently, and my computer ALWAYS goes with me. I have it hand checked (One guy wanted to run the wand on it. Glad I caught him in time!). I normally leave through San Jose, CA airport. Now, you would think that >>THEY<< of all airports would have a decent method for checking laptops, considering the number of them that go through there. NOOOO! Each time, I have to take EVERYTHING out of the case, turn the computer on, wait until it shows signs of life (Any printing on the screen), have the bag scanned separately, and get harrassed about any peripherals (i.e., my 2496 modem, LPT port adapter for my scanner, etc). I have been TOLD, not asked, to take my modem apart on two occasions, and been held up as long as 30 minutes while this whole thing transpires. Putting everything back takes some of this time. I have learned a few ways around this. Like making sure that I am positioned so it is difficult for others to go through the detector. Then the security people aren't so harrassing. But I don't like doing this. The other people have nothing to do with my computer. Los Angeles International on the other hand, has a nice approach that I wish San Jose would use. Turn on the computer, and look through the bag. Much easier, much quicker, and doesn't tie up the tables. I have suggested to San Jose Airport that they modify their approch to the one used at LAX, but in 4 months, I have not received a reply. Regards, Renee Roberts
ht@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Henry Thompson) (12/10/90)
In article <36620@cup.portal.com> Renee@cup.portal.com (Renee Linda Roberts) writes: > ... > I have it hand checked (One guy wanted to run the wand on it. Glad I caught > ... > I have suggested to San Jose Airport that they modify their approch to the > one used at LAX, but in 4 months, I have not received a reply. With respect, and I realise you probably have no reason to know about this, you don't know how lucky you are. Hand checked only? Impossible in any European airport I've been through in two years. Frankly, airport security in the US is a joke. If anybody ever manages to get some Semtex into the US, they could knock down planes at will. You can certainly fit enough Semtex into a modem to do fatal damage to an aircraft. On this side of the atlantic, you have to put your machine through the X-ray, AND turn it on, AND usually plug in and if possible demonstrate any peripherals. And the idea that any security personnel over here would pay any attention at all to the size of the queue behind you is laughable. Furthermore, all you have to do is watch the rejection rate on the personal scanner and you'll realise how different security is in the US from anywhere else. In the UK, I usually remove floppies, keys, asthma inhaler and pocket knife from my pocket and hand them around the frame. This USUALLY means I don't set off the alarm, but at times of high tension it's clear the sensitivity is cranked way out, and you end up being patted down. I never bother with anything but the floppies in the US, because I have NEVER had the alarm go off. It's all a pain in the neck, it means that you have to allow up to half-an-hour for security clearance at Heathrow or Frankfurt at busy times, and even more at small airports for big flights, but NOBODY I know complains. Everybody knows the rules, and nobody wants to be dusted over Lockerbie for Christmas. On a related point comparing US with European security, I note that Pan Am is being slugged in the media and the courts over here for putting transfer bags on planes without checking that the owner was on board. I've never seen any evidence that this stringent a test is applied in the US, particular with bags which have missed a connection (where presumably the test would be whether the passenger travelled on an earlier flight), but I'd be interested to hear if anybody knows details (follow-up to where?). -- Henry Thompson, Human Communication Research Centre, University of Edinburgh 2 Buccleuch Place, Edinburgh EH8 9LW, SCOTLAND -- (44) 31 667-1011 x6517 Fax: (44) 31 662-4912 ARPA: ht@cogsci.ed.ac.uk JANET: ht@uk.ac.ed.cogsci UUCP: ...!uunet!mcvax!ukc!its63b!cogsci!ht
kiravuo@hila.hut.fi (Timo Kiravuo) (12/13/90)
In article <HT.90Dec10152159@scott.cogsci.ed.ac.uk> ht@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Henry Thompson) writes: >With respect, and I realise you probably have no reason to know about >this, you don't know how lucky you are. Hand checked only? >Impossible in any European airport I've been through in two years. Try Finland some day. We don't really have any airport security at all. Of course we don't have any terrorists in the first place anyway... 1/2 :-) About X-ray machines. Just keep in mind that the problem usually is not the X-rays, but the big magnets used to control those rays. I got my Toshiba 1000 LE laptop yesterday. So far I have not found anything bad with it, maybe in week or two I will notice the dark sides, too. Then I'll try to report here. Currently it is 0.50 o'clock, I am sitting in bed drinking beer after sauna, with my Toshiba in lap and with a 9600 bps modem connection. I don't know if this is the reason why the university bought me this machine, but I like this. -- Timo Kiravuo, kiravuo@hut.fi Helsinki University of Technology, Computer Center, Finland
jordan@Morgan.COM (Jordan Hayes) (12/14/90)
I believe the use of laptops on airplanes is prohibited since the laptops emit radio frequency radiation which may interfere with navigational, as well as other, on-board instrumentation. I was using my laptop recently on a TWA 747 flight. Sitting next to me was a TWA 747 Captain (not the one flying at that moment, by the way :-). Sitting on his lap was a Toshiba 3100. He was editing his column for some (APOA-sponsored?) newsletter that talks about laptops for pilots. He was trying to tell me how to jerry-rig my Toshiba 1200 battery to get it to last 7 hours. Any questions? :-) /jordan
jordan@Morgan.COM (Jordan Hayes) (12/14/90)
Patrick Wong <pwong@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu> writes:
Last time when I flew USAir, the taped announcement said that
computers cannot be used only during takeoff and landing.
During takeoff and landing you should have things like that stowed away
under your seat *anyway* ...
/jordantrevorc@uwovax.uwo.ca (12/14/90)
In article <KIRAVUO.90Dec13005333@hila.hut.fi>, kiravuo@hila.hut.fi (Timo Kiravuo) writes: > About X-ray machines. Just keep in mind that the problem usually > is not the X-rays, but the big magnets used to control those > rays. > Oops - when did X-rays start being controlled by magnets? I think you may be confusing X-rays with magnetic resonance imaging or, perhaps, the magnetic loops used to detect ferous materials. There are no magnets in X-ray generators. -- Trevor Cradduck, | Phone: (519) 667-6574 Department of Nuclear Medicine, | FAX: (519) 667-6734 Victoria Hospital, | E-mail: University of Western Ontario, | BITNET: TREVORC@UWOVAX.BITNET LONDON, Ontario, | INTERNET: TREVORC@UWOVAX.UWO.CA Canada, N6A 4G5 | UUCP: TREVORC@RIA.UWO.CA
psg@wolfman.Philips.Com (Prabha Gopinath) (12/14/90)
In article <2369@s6.Morgan.COM> jordan@Morgan.COM (Jordan Hayes) writes: >was a TWA 747 Captain (not the one flying at that moment, by the way >:-). Sitting on his lap was a Toshiba 3100. He was editing his column > >Any questions? :-) Actually yes. Where was the 3100 plugged in? Just curious. prabha -- Prabha Gopinath (914)-945-6539 (m/c) Philips Research Laboratories email: psg@philabs.philips.com 345 Scarborough Road FAX: (914)-945-6375 Briarcliff Manor,NY 10510
brandonl@gold.gvg.tek.com (Brandon Lovested) (12/15/90)
In article <2369@s6.Morgan.COM> jordan@Morgan.COM (Jordan Hayes) writes: >I was using my laptop recently on a TWA 747 flight. Sitting next to me >was a TWA 747 Captain (not the one flying at that moment, by the way >:-). Sitting on his lap was a Toshiba 3100. He was editing his column >for some (APOA-sponsored?) newsletter that talks about laptops for >pilots. He was trying to tell me how to jerry-rig my Toshiba 1200 >battery to get it to last 7 hours. > >Any questions? :-) Yeah....How do yo jerry-rig the battery to get 7 hours...? ;-) ============================================================================== BRANDON G. LOVESTED ::::=:::==::===:==== FOR EVERY VISION, Software Design Engineer ::::=:::==::===:==== THERE IS AN Grass Valley Group ::::=:::==::===:==== EQUAL AND OPPOSITE brandonl@gold.gvg.tek.com ::::=:::==::===:==== REVISION. ==============================================================================
reich@well.sf.ca.us (Richard Reich) (12/16/90)
Re bag-matching in the US. About 18 months ago I was on a TWA flight to Paris from JFK. Pushback was delayed a little over an hour. They unpacked the baggage to retrieve two bags that were identified with connecting passengers who never came aboard. I don't know how common such checks are but I know from expereince that they occured at least once!
golden@frith.uucp (James M Golden) (12/16/90)
In article <2369@s6.Morgan.COM> jordan@Morgan.COM (Jordan Hayes) writes: >He was trying to tell me how to jerry-rig my Toshiba 1200 >battery to get it to last 7 hours. > >Any questions? :-) Yes! Do you remember anything the pilot said about extending the battery life?? Mike Golden Electrical Engineering Undergrad. Michigan State University
ge@wn3.sci.kun.nl (Ge' Weijers) (12/17/90)
PZ2@psuvm.psu.edu (David L. Phillips) writes: >In article <1990Nov29.225555.18236@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu>, >pwong@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Patrick Wong) says: >> >>Last time when I flew USAir, the taped announcement said that computers >>cannot be used only during takeoff and landing. There is no mention that >>computers cannot be used during cruising. The funny thing is that the >>announcement said no other electronic devices are allowed at all time. >> >You can also use tape players but not radios. The problem comes from the >IF (intermediate frequency) radiation used in radios and TV sets to modulate >the RF (radio frequencies) pulled in from the "ether." Tape players and >computers do NOT generate those frequencies, or any significant radiation, for >that matter. I've tried this with my shortwave receiver. Portables definitely emit RFI in HF and VHF bands. This is not surprising with the 8-16 MHz square waves used as clocks. The signals are not very strong though. If airplanes can't handle those signal levels they are intrinsically unsafe. You can't use computer on takeoff because they don't want them flying around and hitting things in an emergency. Ge' -- Ge' Weijers Internet/UUCP: ge@cs.kun.nl Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science, (uunet.uu.net!cs.kun.nl!ge) University of Nijmegen, Toernooiveld 1 6525 ED Nijmegen, the Netherlands tel. +3180652483 (UTC-2)
A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove) (12/18/90)
I used a laptop on a recent flight from the UK to Calif to Aust to NZ. No one commented on its use and I certainly was not secretive -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Arnold Chamove Massey University Psychology Palmerston North, New Zealand
adamd@rhi.hi.is (Adam David) (12/22/90)
In <2559@wn1.sci.kun.nl> ge@wn3.sci.kun.nl (Ge' Weijers) writes: >You can't use computer on takeoff because they don't want them flying around >and hitting things in an emergency. And you shouldn't want to anyway, if you have a hard disk of the standard type or floppies inserted. Adam David. adamd@rhi.hi.is
jma@GNU.AI.MIT.EDU (i've got a photograph says you ruined a perfect day) (12/24/90)
Speaking of laptops, Anyone know what one has to go through to
use a made-for-USA laptop in the UK? my charger is 110/240volt
switchable, but as far as telephone connections (dialing back to USA,
I dunno....) What would I have to go through?
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508-588-8555 or jma@geech.ai.mit.edu
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big changes are coming, here they come..." - Laurie Anderson
-=-=-=- -=-=-=-a1695@mindlink.UUCP (Guy Saffold) (12/26/90)
> rubin@ibm.com writes: > > Personally, I'd be more concerned about a flying laptop than a flying snack > tray that's bolted to the seat, but what do I know. The airline was American, > if it makes any difference. The snack tray regulation is to ensure you can exit to the aisle in an emergency situation not to keep it from flying about (ditto the seat backs in upright position). Of course, if a flying laptop knocks you out on your way to the aisle I suppose you're no better off! -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Guy Saffold a1695@MINDLINK.UUCPP Voice 604-888-7511 Fax 604-888-5336 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
rubin@ibm.com (Bill Rubin) (12/26/90)
> In <2559@wn1.sci.kun.nl> ge@wn3.sci.kun.nl (Ge' Weijers) writes: > >You can't use computer on takeoff because they don't want them flying around > >and hitting things in an emergency. > > And you shouldn't want to anyway, if you have a hard disk of the standard type > or floppies inserted. > > Adam David. adamd@rhi.hi.is Actually, I have an interesting story about this. I was on a plane, using my laptop, and I had it resting on the tray in front of the seat. Well, it came time to prepare for landing, and the flight attendant was quite insistent that I put the tray back in its upright position (as they say), but she did not care that I continued to use it by putting it on my lap. I was travelling with someone else who had a laptop, and she said she routinely uses it during takeoff and landing with no complaints. Personally, I'd be more concerned about a flying laptop than a flying snack tray that's bolted to the seat, but what do I know. The airline was American, if it makes any difference. Bill Rubin rubin@ibm.com