davisp@everest.scl.cwru.edu (Palmer Davis) (12/07/89)
First of all, many thanks to the many helpful folks who sent me mail after
I complained earlier of my troubles getting support for AT&T's own StarLAN-10
card under their own UNIX on their own processor. The gist of what most
people told me [but not AT&T! :-(] is that I need the "StarLAN Network 386 OSI
Network Program."
I called AT&T to order this beast, and the definitive answer I got from their
National Parts line (1-800-222-PART) is that no such piece of software exists.
They transferred me to the ComCode hotline, to the StarLAN group, and through
about half the extensions in Customer Support, and *NOBODY* that I talked to
had *EVER* heard of such a thing! Since real, honest-to-god users of this
product have written me to tell me about it, I can only conclude that either
a) a group of teenage hackers has broken into every system at AT&T and
carefully deleted every reference in every one of their files to the piece of
software that I need, b) the AT&T support people are extremely clueless, or
c) they just don't care. (Somehow, possibility A seems rather unlikely.)
Okay, folks... how do *YOU* deal with AT&T? I know *somebody* has to have
an easier time getting them to sell you their products than I've had, but I'm
about at the end of my rope with them. Even better -- does anybody know a
compatible third-party package so that I can avoid having to deal with getting
bounced around AT&T again?
advaTHANKSnce,
-- Palmer Davis --
Palmer T. Davis | davisp@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu
Case Western Reserve University | {att,sun,decvax,uunet}!cwjcc!skybridge!davisp
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"*I* am in charge of security." "Then who gets the chairs?" | Life is short.david@loki.uif.uiuc.edu (David M. Lyle) (12/07/89)
In article <1989Dec7.044257.14603@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> davisp@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu (Palmer Davis) writes: >First of all, many thanks to the many helpful folks who sent me mail after >I complained earlier of my troubles getting support for AT&T's own StarLAN-10 >card under their own UNIX on their own processor. The gist of what most >people told me [but not AT&T! :-(] is that I need the "StarLAN Network 386 OSI >Network Program." > >I called AT&T to order this beast, and the definitive answer I got from their >National Parts line (1-800-222-PART) is that no such piece of software exists. Now that sounds very strange. Perhaps they only know it by the version number of the software and not the name. >They transferred me to the ComCode hotline, to the StarLAN group, and through >about half the extensions in Customer Support, and *NOBODY* that I talked to >had *EVER* heard of such a thing! Since real, honest-to-god users of this >product have written me to tell me about it, I can only conclude that either >a) a group of teenage hackers has broken into every system at AT&T and >carefully deleted every reference in every one of their files to the piece of >software that I need, b) the AT&T support people are extremely clueless, or >c) they just don't care. (Somehow, possibility A seems rather unlikely.) > >Okay, folks... how do *YOU* deal with AT&T? I've never had the kind of problems that you describe. I would suggest that you talk to your account executive and tell him this story. He can turn the heat up real high on the hotline... :) The package that you are looking for it the 386 OSI Network Program. The PEC code on that is 1330-S04 and the Comcode is 105474332. The OSI version is often referred to as version 3.*. The cost of that, per a not to recent price list, is $795 (list). There is also the 386 Server Program (V3.*), in several different flavors.
jimmy@denwa.uucp (Jim Gottlieb) (12/08/89)
In article <1989Dec7.044257.14603@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> davisp@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu (Palmer Davis) writes: > >Okay, folks... how do *YOU* deal with AT&T? I know *somebody* has to have >an easier time getting them to sell you their products than I've had, Certainly not me. Whenever I try to buy something from AT&T, I end up with no doubts in my mind as to why they have had trouble selling computer equipment. I have spent days (literally) on the phone trying to track down a part or computer. The hotline (800-922-0354) tells me to call National Parts (800-222-PART). NP tells me to call the Product Locator (800-247-1212). They tell me they are only an ad response center and send me on to the Comcode Hotline (800-654-5832). They have me call the 3B hotline (800-222-9333). They suggest I call The finder number (800-FIND-ATT). They send me back to the service hotline that I started with. I must say that dealing with AT&T is the most stressful activity in my work. Whenever I need to find out some information on an AT&T product, I sit down in my chair and say to myself, "OK. This is how the rest of my day will be spent." A previous poster said to ask "your account executive". Well, some of us not-huge companies, and not-universities don't have an AT&T account executive to answer to our every need. One more example of the lack of communication within AT&T: I was considering buying an AT&T UPS. I called their "UPS Hotline" and asked them what size UPS would be needed for an AT&T 3B1 or an AT&T 6386 w/ 135 meg drive. The guy's response was, "We don't know anything about computers here. We just deal with UPSs. Wouldn't you think that they would have a list of the power requirements of various AT&T machines? I found another UPS company that did have a list of the power consumption of many computers. I bought the UPSs from them. -- Jim Gottlieb E-Mail: <jimmy@denwa.uucp> or <jimmy@pic.ucla.edu> or <attmail!denwa!jimmy> V-Mail: (213) 551-7702 Fax: 478-3060 The-Real-Me: 824-5454
david@loki.uif.uiuc.edu (David M. Lyle) (12/09/89)
In article <334@denwa.uucp> denwa!jimmy@anes.ucla.edu (Jim Gottlieb) writes: >[. . .] > >I must say that dealing with AT&T is the most stressful activity in my >work. Whenever I need to find out some information on an AT&T product, >I sit down in my chair and say to myself, "OK. This is how the rest of >my day will be spent." > >A previous poster said to ask "your account executive". Well, some of >us not-huge companies, and not-universities don't have an AT&T account >executive to answer to our every need. Well... if you don't have an account executive, start doing business with an AT&T Value Added Reseller (VAR). They tend to be smaller and have a much greater interest in making your systems work. That is the direction that AT&T seems to want 'smaller' customers to go. I'm told that, at some point in the future, AT&T pc's will only be available through VARS, unless you are ordering very large quantities. By the way... even though we are a big university, our AT&T account executive doesn't "answer to our every need". There are things that can be dealt with much more efficiently through our VAR, instead of dealing with the bureaucracy at AT&T.
fmcgee@cuuxb.ATT.COM (~XT6561110~Frank McGee~C23~L25~6326~) (12/10/89)
In article <1989Dec7.044257.14603@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> davisp@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu (Palmer Davis) writes: [ lots of stuff about how hard it is to deal with AT&T deleted ] >Okay, folks... how do *YOU* deal with AT&T? I know *somebody* has to have >an easier time getting them to sell you their products than I've had, but I'm >about at the end of my rope with them. Even better -- does anybody know a >compatible third-party package so that I can avoid having to deal with getting >bounced around AT&T again? Did you ever think to look in the phone book ? Between A T P Business Systems and ATT Millwrite Contractors in my phone book (white pages) there is a large entry of AT&T entities. One of them is "Computers & Peripherals (toll free)". Sounds pretty simple to me. The number is 1-800-247-1212. If you call them they'll ask for your zip code (or some other nonsense to identify where you live) and they'll tell you who your nearest VAR is. The VAR will know exactly what you are talking about, will probably give you a better price than if you went to AT&T directly, and will probably get it for you in a few weeks instead of in a few months. Incidentally, all the organizations you were forwarded through had nothing to do with end-user sales, and had no way of placing an order for you even if they did happen to know what you were talking about. The exception is the NPSC, which can place orders for PARTS. BUT when you order from them, it's assumed you already HAVE THE PRODUCT and are ordering a REPLACEMENT COMPONENT. For instance, if you ordered the network program by COMCODE (ie, part number), all you would get is a couple of diskettes. No manuals. No diagnostics. Just replacement media. As for third party, none exists for Starlan. However, Locus has a product that will run over the 10 MB hardware, it's called PC Interface. That's about the only third party I'm aware of, and there are a lot of dependencies in their product (ie, it won't run on MSDOS clients above MSDOS 3.1). Also, it may not provide a Transport Level Interface (TLI) suitable for running RFS, UUCP, or other applications over. -- Frank McGee, AT&T Tier 3 Complementary Channel Sales Support attmail!fmcgee