chip@chinacat.Unicom.COM (Chip Rosenthal) (05/27/90)
I did my first install of a SCSI system last evening. I was surprised to find that no low-level formatting was required. Is this usual, or is this something that the manufacturer or distributor of my disk just happened to do? It made the install wonderously easy - truly a plug 'n play event. All other issues aside, just the time saved paid for the difference between ESDI and SCSI. -- Chip Rosenthal | You aren't some icon carved out chip@chinacat.Unicom.COM | of soap, sent down here to clean Unicom Systems Development, 512-482-8260 | up my reputation. -John Hiatt
ggw@wolves.uucp (Gregory G. Woodbury) (05/27/90)
SCSI Easy?!?!?! HA! I'v just spent the evening and night tring to get a maxtor 330MB scsi up and working with ISC 2.0.2. The drive is there, but there is no manual entries to RTFM for getting the thing integrated into the damn system. A little more info: primary AT standard controller with 2 80 MB disk drives each split into 2 sections (root/usr on 0 and news/bbs on 1). These drives fsck and mount quite well. (even if the /etc/partitions no longer correctly ids the drives! HELP on recovery for /etc/partitions is also needed.) The maxtor and adaptec 1542A (intr and dma and such are all correct.) are in place and work (sort of!). I can mkfs/fsck/fsstat the scsi drive (as /dev/dsk/c1d0s0 or c1d0p0) BUT! no variant of /etc/mount will let me mount the device any where on the filesystem! mount: /dev/dsk/c1d0s0 no such device stringing the mount command is non-revealing. It doesnt even go look at the device before telling that. The fsck does play with the correct disk, but mount is obstinate. There is some strange conflict between the release notes/os guide/ and what trivial items there are in the docs. Any help appreciated. It's been a LLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGG night. Greg -- Gregory G. Woodbury @ The Wolves Den UNIX, Durham NC UUCP: ...dukcds!wolves!ggw ...mcnc!wolves!ggw [use the maps!] Domain: ggw@cds.duke.edu ggw%wolves@mcnc.mcnc.org [The line eater is a boojum snark! ] <standard disclaimers apply>
cpcahil@virtech.uucp (Conor P. Cahill) (05/27/90)
In article <1990May27.092900.828@wolves.uucp> ggw@wolves.UUCP (Gregory G. Woodbury) writes: >These drives fsck and mount quite well. (even if the /etc/partitions no >longer correctly ids the drives! HELP on recovery for /etc/partitions is >also needed.) There is an option on the mkpart(1M) command which builds a copy of the /etc/partitions from the vtoc itself. See the man page for more info. > The maxtor and adaptec 1542A (intr and dma and such are >all correct.) are in place and work (sort of!). I can mkfs/fsck/fsstat >the scsi drive (as /dev/dsk/c1d0s0 or c1d0p0) BUT! no variant of >/etc/mount will let me mount the device any where on the filesystem! > > mount: /dev/dsk/c1d0s0 no such device "no such device" is the ENXIO error number which usually means the device driver for /dev/dsk/c1d0s0 is not configured into the kernel. I would verify the major/minor device number for the c1d0s0 entry. I find it hard to believe that the fsck actually worked on the disk drive through that /dev entry (c1d0s0). Another possibility may be that you set up the file system to be a 2K file system and the 2K stuff isn't compiled into the kernel. >stringing the mount command is non-revealing. It doesnt even go look at >the device before telling that. What mount does do is pass you arguments as appropriate to the mount system call. It does not directly access your file system. -- Conor P. Cahill (703)430-9247 Virtual Technologies, Inc., uunet!virtech!cpcahil 46030 Manekin Plaza, Suite 160 Sterling, VA 22170
ggw@wolves.uucp (Gregory G. Woodbury) (05/28/90)
cpcahil@virtech.UUCP (Conor P. Cahill) writes: > >ggw@wolves.UUCP (Gregory G. Woodbury) writes: >> >>These drives fsck and mount quite well. > >> The maxtor and adaptec 1542A (intr and dma and such are >>all correct.) are in place and work (sort of!). I can mkfs/fsck/fsstat >>the scsi drive (as /dev/dsk/c1d0s0 or c1d0p0) BUT! no variant of >>/etc/mount will let me mount the device any where on the filesystem! >> >> mount: /dev/dsk/c1d0s0 no such device > >"no such device" is the ENXIO error number which usually means the >device driver for /dev/dsk/c1d0s0 is not configured into the kernel. Having just spent most of the night persuing the problem.... A newly configured kernel is in place with the aha1540 driver, includes all the available filesystem types, etc. etc... (Kernels are easy to make). >I would verify the major/minor device number for the c1d0s0 entry. > >I find it hard to believe that the fsck actually worked on the >disk drive through that /dev entry (c1d0s0). The strangest part of this whole mess is that the drive can be mkfs's and fsck's perfectly, mkpart seems to talk to the drive some of the time and fsstat report the filesystems are fine - they all talk to the device (evidenced by activity of the appropriate duration.) The only program that is complaining about the drive is /etc/mount! The first time through, it seems to take a bit longer than subsequent attempts and they consistently report the "no such device" (which is nominally the ENXIO - errno #6 "io on special file refers to subdevice which does not exist or is beyond the limits of the device.") I have tried various combinations of c1d0s0 and c1d0p0 and other things. At this point my only options may be to back up everything and start over from scratch! >Another possibility may be that you set up the file system to be a 2K >file system and the 2K stuff isn't compiled into the kernel. NO. The 2k stuff is in place in kernal and the fsys was made with 1K blocks. >>stringing the mount command is non-revealing. It doesnt even go look at >>the device before telling that. > >What mount does do is pass you arguments as appropriate to the mount >system call. It does not directly access your file system. That I understand, I may try writing a simplistic test prog or two to probe the device. Thank you, Connor, for a rapid response, I hope things are a bit clearer in the light of day (rather than at the end of a long, frustrating, session.) Greg -- Gregory G. Woodbury @ The Wolves Den UNIX, Durham NC UUCP: ...dukcds!wolves!ggw ...mcnc!wolves!ggw [use the maps!] Domain: ggw@cds.duke.edu ggw%wolves@mcnc.mcnc.org [The line eater is a boojum snark! ] <standard disclaimers apply>
richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) (05/29/90)
>I did my first install of a SCSI system last evening. I was surprised >to find that no low-level formatting was required. Is this usual, or is >this something that the manufacturer or distributor of my disk just >happened to do? It made the install wonderously easy - truly a plug 'n >play event. All other issues aside, just the time saved paid for the >difference between ESDI and SCSI. Although SCSI drives are often shipped pre-formatted I've seen recommendations, several different places, to format them again upon installation. This helps to make up for any changes that may have occurred to the drive during shipping, and to find any new bad blocks that may have developed. Sun also recommends re-formatting if you decide to change the orientation of a drive (horizontal vs. vertical mount). -- Richard Foulk richard@pegasus.com
gsteckel@diag2.East.Sun.COM (Geoff Steckel - Sun BOS Software) (05/29/90)
>ggw@wolves.UUCP (Gregory G. Woodbury) writes: >> >>These drives fsck and mount quite well. > >> The maxtor and adaptec 1542A (intr and dma and such are >>all correct.) are in place and work (sort of!). I can mkfs/fsck/fsstat >>the scsi drive (as /dev/dsk/c1d0s0 or c1d0p0) BUT! no variant of >>/etc/mount will let me mount the device any where on the filesystem! >> >> mount: /dev/dsk/c1d0s0 no such device Having just been through a fun day replacing a CDC 941??-154 with a Miniscribe 9380S, I have a few suggestions and questions: What partitions do you have set up? What does /etc/partitions say about your drive? What does "/etc/mkpart -t vp" say? If you have no entries in your /etc/partitions for the new drive, try copying the entries for an existing disk, decode them with the /etc/mkpart documentation, edit them to match your real disk, and make a vtoc with /etc/mkpart. Also label the volume (and I've forgotten the name of the utility... /etc/dlabel?) I don't thing you want to mount /dev/dsk/c1d0s0... slice 's0' is not (according to TFM) normally a mountable slice. If you have only mountable one slice, /dev/dsk/c1d0s1 is the likeliest name. You should have done mkfs on /dev/rds/c1d0s[134...], depending on which partitions are defined in /etc/partitions. If you have defined more than one slice using the default utilities, you will probably have `c1d0s1', `c1d0s3', and `c1d0s4' as mountable partitions. Note to ISC: 2.0.2 sysadm scripts CREATE 'disk01' in /etc/partitions when you add a hard disk, but LOOK FOR 'disk1' when you ask it to list drive status. More info if you want it by email. It would be very useful to have a `upgrade main disk' utility script in sysadm. Initial setup of the new disk as an additional disk took only a few minutes. Copying the data from the old to new disk with cpio took only a few more. BUT: Changing the new disk to be a bootable root disk was no fun! It took most of a day to get the boot sectors, partitions, and names right! UNIX `fdisk' doesn't know about creating extended DOS partitions, and DOS fdisk wiped out the UNIX partitions trying to fix that! (Luckily the UNIX vtoc was still intact, so just change the SCSI address jumpers for the 45th time, reboot, and re-fdisk...) I hope this helps. regards, geoff steckel (gwes@wjh12.harvard.EDU) (...!husc6!wjh12!omnivor!gws) Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with Sun Microsystems, despite the From: line. This posting is entirely the author's responsibility.
ggw@wolves.uucp (Gregory G. Woodbury) (05/31/90)
gsteckel@diag2.East.Sun.COM (Geoff Steckel - Sun BOS Software) writes: >>ggw@wolves.UUCP (Gregory G. Woodbury) writes: >>> >>> mount: /dev/dsk/c1d0s0 no such device > >What partitions do you have set up? What does /etc/partitions say about your >drive? What does "/etc/mkpart -t vp" say? That was the weirdness that was throwing me. mkpart kept giving strange answers. Then I tried it again (when fully awake!) and it finally worked! >If you have no entries in your /etc/partitions for the new drive, try >copying the entries for an existing disk, decode them with the /etc/mkpart >documentation, edit them to match your real disk, and make a vtoc with >/etc/mkpart. Also label the volume (and I've forgotten the name of the >utility... /etc/dlabel?) final effective sequence: 1. /etc/diskconfig on /dev/dsk/c1d0p0 to get basic geometry (be careful - some of the /etc/disk* commands will trash /etc/partitions - make a backup!) 2. run fdisk /dev/dsk/c1d0p0 and make unix partitions 3. put the basic disk "stanza" in /etc/partitions 4. run mkpart -i diskNN to create initial vtoc 5. backup /etc/partitions and run /etc/disksetup this will fail! but partition stanzas will be placed in /etc/partitions for your selected configuration. 6. check /etc/partitions to make sure it isn't corrupted (you did make that backup didn't you?) and add the new stanzas for the device to the /etc/partitions file. Probably need to change names from *x to *NN. 7. mkpart -P partition-name diskNN this is for each of the partitions you configured. 8. now that the partitions are on the drive (verify with mkpart -t pv diskNN) note the partition numbers. 9. mkfsys /dev/rdsk/c1d0s<part#> .... this is where the real file system is made. If you are doing this on a drive that needs remapping, do a mkpart -v diskNN to perform a surface analysis and populate the alternates table. 10. labelit /dev/dsk/c1d#s# fsname volname optional, but highly desireable step, keeps mount from complaining about mouting <> on /whatever. The fsname should be the last component of the path that the section will be mounted on. 11. mount /dev/dsk/c1d#s# /path/name 12. cd /path/name and hand build a lost+found directory! try to make the lost+found directory inode 3, then cd to the new lost+found and create a WHOLE LOT of empty files. This is to make the lost+found directory itself of a large enough size to be usefull in the case of a crash. rm all the files just made ;-) 13. edit /etc/fstab to add the new device and its mount point. VOILA! This is quite similar to the perigrinations that most normal unixes go thru in making a new drive, but the specifics of making partitions and slices and whatever are a bit different from the ole pdp-11 and vax stuff I used to do, and the Opus stuff I also do. This is for ISC 2.0.2, it is also similar to what a friend went thru for adding a big scsi to ESIX. (Of course, he get back in town AFTER I get this mess worked out ;-) Note, that when mounting a 300MB scsi partition on ISC, it will take a few minutes for the system to read the free list into memory! It also chews up some of the available memory for the system. >I don't thing you want to mount /dev/dsk/c1d0s0... > slice 's0' is not (according >to TFM) normally a mountable slice. If you have only mountable one slice, >/dev/dsk/c1d0s1 is the likeliest name. You should have done mkfs on >/dev/rds/c1d0s[134...], depending on which partitions are defined in >/etc/partitions. > >If you have defined more than one slice using the default utilities, you will >probably have `c1d0s1', `c1d0s3', and `c1d0s4' as mountable partitions. As your note pointed out (in a deleted section) the "default" utilities are very buggy. Using them, I managed to wipe out /etc/partitions and almost lost my root drive vtoc! Thanks to Larry Jones for the info on mkpart that saved me. -- Gregory G. Woodbury @ The Wolves Den UNIX, Durham NC UUCP: ...dukcds!wolves!ggw ...mcnc!wolves!ggw [use the maps!] Domain: ggw@cds.duke.edu ggw%wolves@mcnc.mcnc.org [The line eater is a boojum snark! ] <standard disclaimers apply>
dougp@ico.isc.com (Doug Pintar) (06/01/90)
Adding a hard disk to an existing controller or adding a new controller (or SCSI adapter) and drive(s) really doesn't have to be all that hard, gang. You can either take the long road described previously in this thread, or just say 'sysadm addharddisk' and let it do all the work. Myself, I'm lazy and don't try to reinvent stuff there's already scripts to do. I'll go back to sleep now. :-) Doug Pintar
keithe@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM (Keith Ericson) (06/02/90)
In article <1990May27.092900.828@wolves.uucp> ggw@wolves.UUCP (Gregory G. Woodbury) writes: >SCSI Easy?!?!?! > >HA! >I'v just spent the evening and night tring to get a maxtor 330MB scsi up >and working with ISC 2.0.2. The drive is there, but there is no manual >entries to RTFM for getting the thing integrated into the damn system. > Greg - I can sympathize with you. I've done many, _MANY_ installations of ISC 2.0.2 (don't get excited, ISC - it's always the same machine!) with ESDI, RLL, SCSI drives. The easiest time I ever had was with a SCSI: Adaptec 1542A plus CDC/IMPRIMIS/S-word Wren V or VI (I forget - the 600 Mbyte goodie). The worst time I ever had (am still having) is eggzactly the same machine (Everex STEP/25) and above compoments EXCEPT replace the CDC/IMPRIMIS/S-word drive with a MAXTOR XT-3280 that a co-worker found laying around in our (internal) PC Service center that they didn't know what to do with. This Maxtor has been a royal pain in the ass! The only thing that will reliably format it is the scsicntl program from adaptec: even the internal (BIOS) formatter can't create a reliably-writable disk! (Symptom: DOS's fdisk acts as though it's creating a partition table but after rebooting - expecting to do the high-level DOS format, you find the partition table hasn't been created!). I had better luck formatting it with a WD 7000ASC controller (fairly old - it's not a FAST version) and that worked fine - but I can't run UNIX on that controller. I _think_ I've got it on the run now. I'm installing ISC 2.0.2 from my tapes. I'll know in less than an hour if it's working or not... I _never_ had this kind of problem with the CDC... drive. I'm beginning to wonder id the controller was [is?] trying to talk faster than the drive can. I mean, the drive isn't particularly new - maybe it's old technology... kEITHe PS - I actually have two of these Maxtor drives; the other one doesn't work any better.
ggw@wolves.uucp (Gregory G. Woodbury) (06/03/90)
In article <1990May31.200327.15906@ico.isc.com> dougp@ico.ISC.COM (Doug Pintar) writes: >Adding a hard disk to an existing controller or adding a new controller >(or SCSI adapter) and drive(s) really doesn't have to be all that hard, >gang. You can either take the long road described previously in this >thread, or just say 'sysadm addharddisk' and let it do all the work. >Myself, I'm lazy and don't try to reinvent stuff there's already scripts >to do. I'll go back to sleep now. :-) That's nice, go back to sleep, you stupid ASSHOLE! As an early item in the thread noted, your "precious" little sysadm scripts DID NOT WORK CORRECTLY! If the d*mned /etc/disk* routines worked right (i.e. didn't assume something illegal about the particular number of drives and which drive was being installed) then none of this painful affair would have made it to the net in the first place. Besides, I've probably forgotten more about the sysadm scripting system than you ever knew. Its no wonder that ISC had a bad reputation for customer support if you are an example of their finest. This is the second time that I have found problems with pieces of ISC code and had absolutly no help from ISC on the problem. "Call your dealer" is nice, but what do you do when its more likely that your dealer calls you when he has a problem with the product! And YES, I am quite angry about your flip little response. Will I keep using ISC products? (probably - they're a d*mn sight better IMHO than the other '386 unixs that I have played with.) -- Gregory G. Woodbury @ The Wolves Den UNIX, Durham NC UUCP: ...dukcds!wolves!ggw ...mcnc!wolves!ggw [use the maps!] Domain: ggw@cds.duke.edu ggw%wolves@mcnc.mcnc.org [The line eater is a boojum snark! ] <standard disclaimers apply>
als@bohra.cpg.oz (Anthony Shipman) (06/04/90)
In article <7598@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM>, keithe@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM (Keith Ericson) writes: > In article <1990May27.092900.828@wolves.uucp> ggw@wolves.UUCP (Gregory G. Woodbury) writes: > >SCSI Easy?!?!?! > > > >HA! > >I'v just spent the evening and night tring to get a maxtor 330MB scsi up > This Maxtor has been a royal pain in the ass! The only thing that > will reliably format it is the scsicntl program from adaptec: even the > internal (BIOS) formatter can't create a reliably-writable disk! (Symptom: I run ISC 2.0.1 with a TMC881 controller and an XT4380S. The only problem I had was getting the UNIX driver to go when I build my own kernel. For some God-only-knows reason ISC only allow the TMC881 to be on IRQ5 whereas it is supplied jumpered for IRQ13 and that's where I want it. After much mucking about I figured out how to patch the space.c file to get what I wanted. Oddly enough the kernel on the boot disk worked perfectly with the TMC881 on IRQ13! I haven't had to format the Maxtor and it has been running fine. -- Anthony Shipman ACSnet: als@bohra.cpg.oz.au Computer Power Group 9th Flr, 616 St. Kilda Rd., St. Kilda, Melbourne, Australia D
richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) (06/05/90)
>In article <1990May31.200327.15906@ico.isc.com> >dougp@ico.ISC.COM (Doug Pintar) writes: >>Adding a hard disk to an existing controller or adding a new controller >>(or SCSI adapter) and drive(s) really doesn't have to be all that hard, >>gang. You can either take the long road described previously in this >>thread, or just say 'sysadm addharddisk' and let it do all the work. >>Myself, I'm lazy and don't try to reinvent stuff there's already scripts >>to do. I'll go back to sleep now. :-) > > That's nice, go back to sleep, you stupid ASSHOLE! > On behalf of the rest of us who value the ability to communicate with vendors in this forum, please accept our apology for this outburst. I guess manners and civility don't always seem necessary when you're conversing with a monitor and keyboard and there are no warm bodies in site. If someone called me an asshole in a public forum I'd certainly think twice before returning to that forum again. I hope this guys gaff doesn't chase you guys away. We need you. There's one in every crowd I guess. And this guy certainly wasn't speaking for anyone else. -- Richard Foulk richard@pegasus.com
neese@adaptex.UUCP (06/08/90)
>>SCSI Easy?!?!?! >> >>HA! >>I'v just spent the evening and night tring to get a maxtor 330MB scsi up >>and working with ISC 2.0.2. The drive is there, but there is no manual >>entries to RTFM for getting the thing integrated into the damn system. >> > >Greg - > > I can sympathize with you. I've done many, _MANY_ installations of >ISC 2.0.2 (don't get excited, ISC - it's always the same machine!) with ESDI, >RLL, SCSI drives. The easiest time I ever had was with a SCSI: Adaptec 1542A >plus CDC/IMPRIMIS/S-word Wren V or VI (I forget - the 600 Mbyte goodie). The >worst time I ever had (am still having) is eggzactly the same machine (Everex >STEP/25) and above compoments EXCEPT replace the CDC/IMPRIMIS/S-word drive with >a MAXTOR XT-3280 that a co-worker found laying around in our (internal) PC >Service center that they didn't know what to do with. > > This Maxtor has been a royal pain in the ass! The only thing that >will reliably format it is the scsicntl program from adaptec: even the >internal (BIOS) formatter can't create a reliably-writable disk! (Symptom: >DOS's fdisk acts as though it's creating a partition table but after >rebooting - expecting to do the high-level DOS format, you find the >partition table hasn't been created!). I had better luck formatting it with >a WD 7000ASC controller (fairly old - it's not a FAST version) and that >worked fine - but I can't run UNIX on that controller. I have posted this many times, but some still haven't figured it out. The 3000 series drive from Maxtor does not comply with the SCSI standard. It violates the arbitration scheme of SCSI. There may be other problems, but that is the worst one of all. I got some mail recently that many folks are saying that the 154x adapter cannot support multiple drives reliably. In all cases, the drives were the 3280S Maxtor/Newbury. The 154x adapter cannot and will not work reliably with a SCSI device that does not adhere to the SCSI standard. The SCSI protocol on the 154x is done in hardware and not software. Save yourself a lot of grief and do not use these devices on the 154x adapter. Roy Neese Adaptec Senior SCSI Applications Engineer UUCP @ uunet!swbatl!texbell! {cpe,merch,nominil}!adaptex!neese uunet!mlite!adaptex!neese