[comp.unix.i386] interface/graphics development environments for 386/RS6000

cearl@aristotle.ils.nwu.edu (Charles Earl) (06/13/90)

We will be developing multimedia (e.g. video, animation, digitized images,etc.)
based educational software using ibm RS/6000s and 386's as development 
platforms -- assume UNIX environment. Initial development will most likely
 occur on the RISC machines but
the 386's are intended target (we will actually be using 386s for some months
until RISCs arrive).

We have been a MacII shop, doing most development in Mac Common Lisp.
I am trying to decide on an appropriate development environment and
would like feedback from the experts. We would like to use
Lisp/Scheme, but Smalltalk, C++, C, etc. would be ok if no other
options for graphics environments exist.

The environment should:

	(1) Facillitate construction of window-based applications. This also
	    implies support of important window env features like buttons,
	    icons, etc.
	(2) Support development of fast, attractive animation -- that is,
	    we would want fairly rich graphics libraries/packages.
	(3) Allow development of multimedia applications, especially those 
	    which would incorporate video.
	(4) Have a foreign function facility (e.g. would allow calls to Pascal,
	    C, etc.).
	(5) Provide support of object - oriented programming (this is not 
	    essential ).

Any ideas, comments appreciated

dunn@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (John Dunn) (06/14/90)

In article <835@anaxagoras.ils.nwu.edu> cearl@aristotle.ils.nwu.edu (Charles Earl) writes:
>We will be developing multimedia (e.g. video, animation, digitized images,etc.)
>based educational software using ibm RS/6000s and 386's as development 
>platforms -- assume UNIX environment. Initial development will most likely
> occur on the RISC machines but
>the 386's are intended target (we will actually be using 386s for some months
>until RISCs arrive).
>
>We have been a MacII shop, doing most development in Mac Common Lisp.
>I am trying to decide on an appropriate development environment and
>would like feedback from the experts. We would like to use
>Lisp/Scheme, but Smalltalk, C++, C, etc. would be ok if no other
>options for graphics environments exist.
>
If you are most comfortable working in an interactive Lisp environment,
but you need to produce real-world working code, you might consider
Laboratory Microsystem's 386/UR Forth.  It runs in protected mode,
has a first rate virtual memory facility, and is faster then C by
a fair degree.  Several times I have gone to assembley language for
loop-critical components, only to find I had a 2* savings - the speed
of this product is difficult to believe.  Compile speed is likewise
considerably faster than you are likely to see with C or Pascal - 
especially when you include link time.

I believe LMI has a compatible version that works under UNIX.  They
definitely have one that works under OS/2, and have made noises about
bringing out a Windows 3 version.

My own experience was similar to yours - I had worked in a Lisp
developemt mode until there was enough groundwork to take the project
to a real-world releasable version.  After close to 6 months of false
starts, I tried out 386 UR/Forth.  The only thing that wasn't available
was some means of treating data as objects - I had become use to 
Flavors in Lisp.  Eventually, after an exaustive search of the available
Forth code (there is a mountain of it, but it is mostly unusable IMHO),
I gave up, bit the bullet and wrote a object-type memory manager
with very fast automatic garbage collection.  This whole system has 
worked so well for me that now, even if there were to be a Lisp
package around that included a reasonable means of delivering the
finished software to the end user, I would stick with 386 Forth.

Oh yes, the Memory Object Package is in the Public Domain - You will
find it on the UR/Forth BBS system that you will have access to when
you buy any of the UR/Forths.
 
-John Dunn

paul@actrix.co.nz (Paul Gillingwater) (06/15/90)

In article <835@anaxagoras.ils.nwu.edu> cearl@aristotle.ils.nwu.edu (Charles Earl) writes:
Try XVT, from XVT software in Boulder, Colorado.  It's a virtual toolkit
with heaps of features, that runs on a wide range of UNIX and other
platforms.  I think there is a Macintosh version too, and even one
for DOS!  It's far more than just a set of Motif widgets, although
it's compatible with them.  

>	(1) Facillitate construction of window-based applications. This also
>	    implies support of important window env features like buttons,
>	    icons, etc.

Yep, does all this I think.

>	(2) Support development of fast, attractive animation -- that is,
>	    we would want fairly rich graphics libraries/packages.

Don't know -- this might be a weak area.

>	(3) Allow development of multimedia applications, especially those 
>	    which would incorporate video.

Don't know.

>	(4) Have a foreign function facility (e.g. would allow calls to Pascal,
>	    C, etc.).

Yes, I think so.

>	(5) Provide support of object - oriented programming (this is not 
>	    essential ).

There's a library for C++ use.

Hope this helps.  No, I don't have the address here (I'm at home).
-- 
Paul Gillingwater, paul@actrix.co.nz