kevin@litle.litle.com (kevin p burke) (06/26/90)
In article <106@thor> scjones@thor (Larry Jones) writes: >A while back, my group purchased four copies of 386/ix to replace >the orphaned Microport and Bell Technologies systems we had been >using. In the process of trying to install 386/ix, I ran into >some problems and called Interactive to help resolve them. The >person I talked to informed me that ISC support policy is 60 days >from the date of your company's first purchase. Since someone >had purchased something from them a year ago, we were not >entitled to any support without buying a support contract. The >gentleman did offer to help me out just this once, but emphasized >that we should not expect any additional help. > >It seems to me that the only reasonable policy is to provide >installation support for each and every purchase. Am I the only >one that feels this way? NO!...when we bought a copy of the new 2.2 and I needed some support I got the same line...we bought 2.0.2 a year ago and now we have to buy support for something bought a couple of weeks ago? Interactive...get a clue... I'm just glad that they didn't incorporate Kodak's purchases into it... "Well I'm sorry, but you bought a roll of kodak film 20 years ago..." sheesh! ok...so I'm being a bit extreme...but what ever happened to supporting what you sell? and saying you cannot support something because the customer bought a product from you x months ago even if the product they need support on they bought yesterday *IS* just a bit moronic. moral: I like ICS's product...but their support policy is enough to make me seriously consider NOT recommending them. >---- >Larry Jones UUCP: uunet!sdrc!scjones >SDRC scjones@SDRC.UU.NET >2000 Eastman Dr. BIX: ltl >Milford, OH 45150-2789 AT&T: (513) 576-2070 >"This probably just goes to show something, but I sure don't know what." >-Calvin -k disklaymur: I'm not supposed to have my own opinion, but nonetheless I'm violating corporate (or is that american) policy and having an opinion that does not necessarily reflect that of my employers or my government. -- =============================================================================== Kevin P. Burke, Corporate Mystic, Litle & Co. | POB C26, Hanover, NH 03755-6000 +1 603 643 5558 (home) +1 603 643 1834 (off.) +1 603 643 6723 (fax) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you feel that you are indispensable, put your finger into a glass of water. Withdraw it, and note the hole that you have left. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- kevin@litle.com {backbone}!dartvax.dartmouth.edu!litle!kevin ===============================================================================
scjones@thor (Larry Jones) (06/27/90)
In article <2661@uakari.primate.wisc.edu>, bin@primate.wisc.edu (Brain in Neutral) writes: > You evidently waited a year before > installing your purchase (if I read the first paragraph correctly). You > should have at least read the support policy to find out what constraints > you would be operating under. Of course if that policy wasn't supplied > with your software, you have a more legitimate gripe. No, you misunderstood. Someone ELSE at my company had bought something a year ago, our software had just arrived when we tried installing it. My point is that the fact that someone at a company has purchased a product from a vendor in the past is not a valid reason to refuse to provide support for a new purchase of the same product. ISC's position appears to be to refuse to provide support not only for additional purchases of the same product, but even purchase of a different product! ---- Larry Jones UUCP: uunet!sdrc!scjones SDRC scjones@SDRC.UU.NET 2000 Eastman Dr. BIX: ltl Milford, OH 45150-2789 AT&T: (513) 576-2070 "This probably just goes to show something, but I sure don't know what." -Calvin
gary@sci34hub.UUCP (Gary Heston) (06/27/90)
In article <2661@uakari.primate.wisc.edu> bin@primate.wisc.edu writes: >From article <106@thor>, by scjones@thor (Larry Jones): >| A while back, my group purchased four copies of 386/ix to replace >| the orphaned Microport and Bell Technologies systems we had been >| [ .... ] >| some problems and called Interactive to help resolve them. The >| person I talked to informed me that ISC support policy is 60 days >| from the date of your company's first purchase. Since someone ^^^^^ >| had purchased something from them a year ago, we were not >| entitled to any support without buying a support contract. >| It seems to me that the only reasonable policy is to provide >| installation support for each and every purchase. Am I the only >| one that feels this way? > > [ ... ] You evidently waited a year before >installing your purchase (if I read the first paragraph correctly). You No, he didn't wait a year... I think someone at ISC got their wires crossed, or lost a few inodes... The situation Larry describes is that: A year ago, someone over in the Blivit Department bought something from ISC. Then this year, Larry, who's in the Widget Department, bought four copies of 386/ix to upgrade the Widget Dept. systems. Upon calling ISC with a question about his new packages, the ISC rep is claiming that the Blivit Departments' purchase blocks Larry from any support. This is like a car dealer saying that since you bought a car from them in '75, they don't have to honor the warranty on your new '90 model. I would find it hard to believe that this is what ISC really meant; I hope that their support person misinterpreted the policy. Based on the reported treatment of some of our eval people by ISCs' support people, I'm suprised Larry got any help, with that policy statement. Any one package purchase should entail support, for that package, for a specified period (be it 30, 60, or 90 days). ISC should support him.... Heck, I got a call from a guy last week that bought one of our systems about 6 years ago, who was having some hard drive problems. I've talked to him a couple of times, and answered his questions. I'd like for him to buy more equipment from us, and keep me employed.... -- Gary Heston { uunet!sci34hub!gary } System Mismanager SCI Technology, Inc. OEM Products Department (i.e., computers) "The esteemed gentleman says I called him a liar. That's true, and I regret it." Retief, a character created by Keith Laumer.
brando@uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu (06/27/90)
An additional note:
If you are a reseller and buy multiple packages at the beginning and then
sell them later to others, the support from Interactive has also expired.
I originally had ISC 2.0 running on an RLL system, and sold one (about 8 mos.)
later to a gentleman who was using a SCSI-based system. Well, of course I
hadn't forseen these problems in the other systems I sold, but since I
purchased them 8 mos. ago, it was kind of a sorry Charlie type deal.
Anyway, I called the New Hampshire office, and the Tech Support guys there
were more than willing to help me. Thank God! Anyway, I think ISC had some
problems with the on-line databases that didn't qualify those resellers and
dealers to have tech. support. And, they changed their policy. But, I believe,
now even dealers much purchase the add-on support package after 60 days of
tech support.
P.S. Have you seen the cost of these "support" packages? They charge you
support for EACH module!!!! In many cases this is the cost of the
entire package!!!
Brando
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Brandon Brown | Internet: brando@uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu |
| Coordinated Science Laboratory | UUCP: uiucuxc!addamax!brando!brown |
| University of Illinois | CompuServe: 73040,447 |
| Urbana, IL 61801 | GEnie: macbrando |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+pgd@bbt.se (P.Garbha) (06/28/90)
In article <493@litle.litle.com> kevin@litle.UUCP (kevin p burke) writes: >NO!...when we bought a copy of the new 2.2 and I needed some support I got >the same line...we bought 2.0.2 a year ago and now we have to buy support >for something bought a couple of weeks ago? Interactive...get a clue... >I'm just glad that they didn't incorporate Kodak's purchases into it... >"Well I'm sorry, but you bought a roll of kodak film 20 years ago..." >sheesh! Well, then the trick is obviosly to buy on a "new" company name, or just simply buy it on a new employees name, each time.
larry@nstar.uucp (Larry Snyder) (06/28/90)
pgd@bbt.se (P.Garbha) writes: >Well, then the trick is obviosly to buy on a "new" company name, >or just simply buy it on a new employees name, each time. Or say you are someone else when calling in for support. -- Larry Snyder, Northern Star Communications, Notre Dame, IN USA uucp: iuvax!ndmath!nstar!larry -or- larry@nstar Public Access Unix Site (219) 289-3745 / lots of files & free PEP feeds!
birch@felix.UUCP (Stephen Birch) (06/28/90)
In article <106@thor> scjones@thor (Larry Jones) writes about Interactive: >It seems to me that the only reasonable policy is to provide >installation support for each and every purchase. Am I the only >one that feels this way? I completely agree. It turns out that Interactive does sell a support contract, but the prices are far too high for the average consumer to (I believe they want about $650 per year). For this reason alone I wish I had bought ESIX, they provide unlimited technical support.
bill@ssbn.WLK.COM (Bill Kennedy) (06/29/90)
In article <1990Jun28.132734.19603@nstar.uucp> larry@nstar.uucp (Larry Snyder) writes: >pgd@bbt.se (P.Garbha) writes: > >>Well, then the trick is obviosly to buy on a "new" company name, >>or just simply buy it on a new employees name, each time. > >Or say you are someone else when calling in for support. >-- > Larry Snyder, Northern Star Communications, Notre Dame, IN USA Or choose a vendor with support prices/policies more in keeping with your need for support. At this point ESIX is looking more and more interesting based on what I read in this news group. It appears that they have a bona-fide interest in identifying and solving problems, they seem to follow up. I should add that I'm completely ignorant of their product/services other than what I read here. I'm sure I'll become "enlightened" :-) I have had first hand experience with Digital Reasearch (yeah, back that far!), Microport, AT&T, SCO, and ISC. The "couple of hundred a year" to DRI was far in a way the best I've seen until they stopped supporting anything for any amount of money. Microport would, after the dozen "it's a hardware problem" recordings, hunker down and try to find the problem, sometimes they did. SCO has the most amazing bureaucracy I've ever seen. I was dutifully called back three times over ten working days by the same wrong-analyst-for-the-problem. I never got the right-analyst-for-the-problem, I ran out of time. AT&T is a complete "no go" unless you produce an AT&T hardware serial number. I don't care what the warranty says, it's not what they actually do. The subject is Interactive, I just wanted to sketch in some background and admit my ignorance of Everex. When Interactive tech support was free, it was nearly worth that. There was no way to track a problem or a call, so you got to start all over again every time you dialed; yes it's plugged in, yes it's powered up, repeat system contents, etc. Further, until recently they had no native English speaking support reps. I'm very sympathetic to the communication difficulties encountered speaking in a second language but doing technical telephone support isn't where that problem gets solved. It's awkward and embarrassing to ask for (and answer) the third repeat of "megabyte". Far in a way the best ISC support I've gotten has been in this news group. In fairness, much of it has come from the contributions of ISC employees. So now we're supposed to pay for support. There's nothing wrong with that if there is a product to deliver and if it can be cost justified. SCO has a support product to deliver but I can't cost justify it. If hands-on-phone experience is any measure (mine), ISC doesn't have a product. Maybe they have done a complete overhaul, restructure, restaff, remanage, but if they are just starting to charge for what I've seen it ain't worth it. Spending time waiting for someone to find the manual page I have in front of me when I call isn't my idea of support. Paying to be eligible to spend that time is absurd. Paying (IMHO) a lot to be eligible to spend that time is a condition that can probably be treated with appropriate psychiatric care. Shucking usenet oysters in pursuit of a pearl is, for me, costworthy. From time to time I can even help someone else, that's neat. Ponying up money for something that wasn't cost effective when it was free requires some pretty heavy explanation. I don't want glossy sales sheets, I want facts. I want to know that it won't take four calls repeating the fundamentals every time to find out that nobody has ever heard of that before. I want to be able to hear and understand "megabyte" when it's uttered. I want to know that the problem has been referred to the appropriate developer, and I'd be delighted to be offered a workaround, I'd pay for that. Thus far I've seen no evidence that Interactive is selling anything like that, they've just started charging for something that wasn't cost effective when it was free... It's really tough to get people to pay for something that used to be free. HBO pointed that out when they started scrambling their satellite signal. Along that line, however, HBO found out that if you offer value, people will pay. If Interactive can/does/will offer value, I'll pay. In the meantime I'll keep shucking usenet oysters 'cause that's where I find the pearls. Sorry you had to shuck this oyster... -- Bill Kennedy usenet {texbell,att,cs.utexas.edu,sun!daver}!ssbn!bill internet bill@ssbn.WLK.COM or attmail!ssbn!bill
heidt@aio.jesnet.jsc.nasa.gov (Mike Heidt) (06/29/90)
My experience with ISC support has been that it wasn't worth much when they would talk to me. I found that the best solution is to buy from a vendor who is capable of providing the support I need. I get my ISC software and support from DELL in Austin. I don't know if they will sell their software for other than DELL machines, but if they will or if you have DELL hardware you can't beat DELLs technical help. Mike Heidt
davidsen@sixhub.UUCP (Wm E. Davidsen Jr) (06/30/90)
In article <106@thor> scjones@thor (Larry Jones) writes: | In the process of trying to install 386/ix, I ran into | some problems and called Interactive to help resolve them. The | person I talked to informed me that ISC support policy is 60 days | from the date of your company's first purchase. Since someone | had purchased something from them a year ago, we were not | entitled to any support without buying a support contract. We got support on a recent copy of ISC, but it might have been the first copy *of that release* purchased. Still, I really doubt it. I can't imagine that ISC is only supporting one copy to a customer. If that's true then the evaluation copy will be the last one, and 100% of our copies will be supported. -- bill davidsen - davidsen@sixhub.uucp (uunet!crdgw1!sixhub!davidsen) sysop *IX BBS and Public Access UNIX moderator of comp.binaries.ibm.pc and 80386 mailing list "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me
brando@uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu (06/30/90)
/* Written 11:22 am Jun 28, 1990 by birch@felix.UUCP in uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu:comp.unix.i386 */ In article <106@thor> scjones@thor (Larry Jones) writes about Interactive: >It seems to me that the only reasonable policy is to provide >installation support for each and every purchase. Am I the only >one that feels this way? I completely agree. It turns out that Interactive does sell a support contract, but the prices are far too high for the average consumer to (I believe they want about $650 per year). For this reason alone I wish I had bought ESIX, they provide unlimited technical support. /* End of text from uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu:comp.unix.i386 */
david@csource.OZ.AU (david nugent) (06/30/90)
In <1990Jun28.132734.19603@nstar.uucp> larry@nstar.uucp (Larry Snyder) writes: >pgd@bbt.se (P.Garbha) writes: >>Well, then the trick is obviosly to buy on a "new" company name, >>or just simply buy it on a new employees name, each time. >Or say you are someone else when calling in for support. It doesn't matter - you still have to purchase a support contract. The big change came on 15th of May - I was right in the middle of a large installation at the time and screaming for help. One week I called (yes, from Australia :-(), and I got excellent support; the next week I was hit with "sorry, you need to have a support contract". On the positive side, when I made my desperation known, they did help out, but they stated that either we get a support contract, or we go though our local distributors. Unfortunately, at the time we had already exhausted the latter resource. They couldn't tell us any more than we already knew. -- _______________________________________________________________________________ Unique Computing Pty Ltd Melbourne Australia - Communications Specialists david@csource.oz.au 3:632/348@fidonet 28:4100/1@signet
harley@cs.utexas.edu (Harley Hahn) (07/01/90)
In article <40800018@uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu> brando@uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu writes: > >I completely agree. It turns out that Interactive does sell a support >contract, but the prices are far too high for the average consumer to >(I believe they want about $650 per year). For this reason alone >I wish I had bought ESIX, they provide unlimited technical support. I recently talked to someone important at ISC who informed me that all ISC Unix products are supported by the resellers, not by ISC itself. Therefore, there couldn't be a problem. What am I missing here?
beser@tron.UUCP (Eric Beser) (07/02/90)
In article <40800018@uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu>, brando@uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu writes: > > /* Written 11:22 am Jun 28, 1990 by birch@felix.UUCP in uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu:comp.unix.i386 */ > In article <106@thor> scjones@thor (Larry Jones) writes about Interactive: > > >It seems to me that the only reasonable policy is to provide > >installation support for each and every purchase. Am I the only > >one that feels this way? > > I completely agree. It turns out that Interactive does sell a support > contract, but the prices are far too high for the average consumer to > (I believe they want about $650 per year). For this reason alone > I wish I had bought ESIX, they provide unlimited technical support. > > /* End of text from uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu:comp.unix.i386 */ We bought ESIX and, having read with interest the support policy articles I would like to add my two cents worth. Our relationship with ESIX is strictly customer. We have been using them from the REV A beta to REV D beta, and will install REV D production when we receive it. We have been running it on an HP vectra, and there have been problems with random system crashes for no apparant reason except for system loading. This problem was enough to pull our hair out and if it wasn't for the technical support we received from ESIX, we would have gone to another vendor. Not only was the support given in an intellegent manner (the techies really know what they are talking about) they were eager and willing to help to the point of (at our expense) getting on an airplane with the appropriate test equipment. As purely a customer (we have established friendly and working relationships with their primary customer support person (Dave Hsu), their support manager (Swi Gin Leung), and their hardware manager (Bill Wong). The problem got so bad at one point, that we sent the hardware (trading PC's for a month) so that their engineers who felt somewhat challenged by this problem unique to the HP Vectra could be stompped on. The happy ending to this story is that the problem was caused by loose memory chips on the processor board, but would not have been discovered by any other means other than diligent work, and persitance of their support staff. I think that if ESIX decides to charge for customer support, they certainly have a product to sell. Although not native American, their support staff are fluent and quite easily understood, understand unix and understand hardware. I, as only a customer, am very much impressed by the support received so far. When we were having to justify to the customer why we chose ESIX over some other brand, we only needed to point to the notes of our telephone conversation with Interactive. I called their 800 number to ask for customer support. Their operator told me to call another 800 number. I did. The person answering the phone asked me how I got this number. I told him. He told me that I couldn't have possible gotten that number because their operators are under strict orders not to give it out. He informed me that he would help me just this once, but I was not to call back without a valid support contract number. His answers to my question was "read the manual", "call sales and get the compatibility list", "I don't know", and "Again, call sales for that information." I did not call sales. I called my PC store office (internal to the company), and canceled my order for the Architechs Workstation Developers, plus Motif, plus NFS (multi users). I sent a recomendation to the unix working group and to our customer that they stay with ESIX. They did. To me, the support of the product means more than the sales. If the product is so good, it will sell itself. By having customer support that you have to pay to be abused, it is not worth the high price to pay for a product. I think ESIX in charging low rates for the product and offering high quality customer support will gain more customers for less effort. I hope they do, because I have actually enjoyed working with their support group, I feel good about the product they sell, and will recomend them to anyone who asks. Eric Beser Westinghouse Aerospace Software Engineering beser@SWARS.bwi.wec.com "Captain, I think we can do it..." "Make it so, number one!"
support@ism780c.isc.com (Support account) (07/04/90)
The following will hopefully help to clear up any confusion regarding the support policies of INTERACTIVE. Let me first talk about support from the distribution arm of INTERACTIVE located in Hollis, NH. This office functions in the same manner as any distributor selling INTERACTIVE products, which is to say they tailor all of their programs, sales and support, to the reseller. Although the individual buyer or end-user of the software sometimes purchases the package through a distributor (our Hollis office included), this is not their primary market. End-users are generally referred back to a reseller in their area. It is in this light that our Hollis Distribution office offers 60 days of free technical support for all new clients making their initial purchase of any software product. Clients purchasing a new version of software will be granted an additional 30 days of warranty support from the New Hampshire technical support staff. INTERACTIVE's corporate headquarters in Santa Monica does not offer warranty technical support at this time. The INTERACTIVE UNIX product family carries a 60 day limited warranty. This warrants that the software be in operable condition as described in the documentation provided, and that the diskette upon which the software is furnished will be free of defects in material and workmanship. For warranty assistance, users should first contact the dealer from which it was purchased, or contact the INTERACTIVE consumer relations desk at 1 800 346 7111. It is expected that all dealers selling INTERACTIVE products will provide limited initial technical support for their customer base. If a consumer is having difficulty getting technical support from their vendor, they should call the above phone number with the name of the dealer, the phone number, and the contact there with whom they spoke. With regard to technical support programs for the INTERACTIVE UNIX family of products, we have recently brought to market RESPONSE/ix, a new, low cost introductory level support program designed with the smaller reseller in mind. This program is modular, to allow the purchase of support for only the software products a particular reseller intends to market. This enables us to keep the cost reasonable while providing the most comprehensive support possible. These support products are available through the same distribution channels as the rest of our product family, and are priced at a suggested retail from $645/yr for Basic UNIX to $1545/yr to include all extensions. This support is delivered directly from the Technical Support staff in Santa Monica, CA. In addition to RESPONSE/ix, INTERACTIVE offers development level support to applications developers, hardware vendors, and others requiring greater levels of expertise for support assistance. This is referred to as our Partner support program and can be purchased directly from INTERACTIVE only. Contact INTERACTIVE Sales and Marketing at the above number (1 800 346 7111) for additional information regarding our Partner support offering. Mike Alcorn Manager, Systems Products Support INTERACTIVE Systems
ronald@robobar.co.uk (Ronald S H Khoo) (07/04/90)
In article <44666@ism780c.isc.com> support@ism780c.UUCP (Support account) writes: > Contact INTERACTIVE Sales and Marketing at the above number (1 800 346 > 7111) for additional information regarding our Partner support offering. Seeing as one of the posters in this thread is from Oz, how about a number we can call from outside USA and/or info regarding whether or not such a number would be of any use to anyone ? -- Eunet: Ronald.Khoo@robobar.Co.Uk Phone: +44 81 991 1142 Fax: +44 81 998 8343 Paper: Robobar Ltd. 22 Wadsworth Road, Perivale, Middx., UB6 7JD ENGLAND.
pinard@IRO.UMontreal.CA (Francois Pinard) (07/05/90)
In article <1990Jul4.073241.5079@robobar.co.uk> ronald@robobar.co.uk (Ronald S H Khoo) writes: In article <44666@ism780c.isc.com> support@ism780c.UUCP (Support account) writes: > Contact INTERACTIVE Sales and Marketing at the above number (1 800 346 > 7111) for additional information regarding our Partner support offering. Seeing as one of the posters in this thread is from Oz, how about a number we can call from outside USA and/or info regarding whether or not such a number would be of any use to anyone ? Let me mumble a little about a previous experience with ISC. These 800 numbers are usually unattainable even from Canada (I did not check this last one, to be honest). Bell operators or directory assistance will not translate these numbers to usable ones. Just getting the correct numbers might a frustrating cruisade, being forwarded from one number to the other, using these international long distance calls to answer questionnaires over the phone line to some harsh operator evidently filling forms at the other end, longly being put on hold sometimes. And all of that to finally hear about support policies, and be invited to get the hardware repaired. Incidentally, the `hardware problem' turned out to solve mysteriously and completely when a new version of the system came out. Grrr! Simply said, this is non-support. If I only had the sources, I would have solved the problem myself. Another argument in favor of the Free Software Fundation! -- Franc,ois Pinard ``Vivement GNU!'' pinard@iro.umontreal.ca (514) 588-4656 cp 886 L'Epiphanie (Qc) J0K 1J0 ...!uunet!iros1!pinard
olu@sysauto.UUCP (Olumide O. Emuleomo) (07/06/90)
I have heard all sorts of nice things being said about ESIX and their support policies? I must say that I agree to a large extent. But how come they can't get their BBS to support 2400 baud modems? Emuleomo O.O. (olu@sysauto!UUCP) -- -Remember. It doesn't matter if you win or lose; As long as you win!
gustwick@wf-aus.cactus.org (Bob Gustwick ) (07/07/90)
harley@cs.utexas.edu (Harley Hahn) writes: > I recently talked to someone important at ISC who informed me that > all ISC Unix products are supported by the resellers, not > by ISC itself. Therefore, there couldn't be a problem. > > What am I missing here? what you are missing is that resellers get the same poor support level that is being discussed in this group. therefore resellers are as out of luck as everyone else is... so the trickle down theory fails again. ...bob
john@synsys.UUCP (John C. Rossmann) (07/09/90)
In <44666@ism780c.isc.com> support@ism780c.isc.com (Support account) writes: >The following will hopefully help to clear up any confusion regarding the >support policies of INTERACTIVE. >Let me first talk about support from the distribution arm of INTERACTIVE . . . .... Lots of "policy statements" deleted ... . . . >With regard to technical support programs for the INTERACTIVE UNIX family of >products, we have recently brought to market RESPONSE/ix, a new, low cost >introductory level support program designed with the smaller reseller in >mind. This program is modular, to allow the purchase of support for only the >software ... >These support products are available through the same distribution >channels as the rest of our product family, and are priced at a suggested >retail from $645/yr for Basic UNIX to $1545/yr to include all extensions. Interesting. He considers $1545 per year to be cheap!! ;-| >Mike Alcorn >Manager, Systems Products Support >INTERACTIVE Systems I've read this thread with great interest. I'm not an ISC user -- I've always felt their product to be overpriced. But this message from their product support manager is a gem. 1) It indicates clearly why you ISC users are having a support problem: they aren't hearing what you're trying to tell them. 2) To paraphrase #1: Everything in this message thread seems to have gone completely over the head of the person who's position might give him the authority to do something about it. 3) Given the loads of messages here, magazine articles, etc., any software company should understand by now that most resellers are not capable of giving support to sophisticated end users. That's what many of you have tried to tell ISC in this thread; Mr. Alcorn's message shows that he doesn't care - or can't hear you. Seeing this message from ISC's product support manager must fill the ESIX folks with joy -- if I were one of them, I'd have popped a bottle of Dom Perignon! One point to Mr. Alcorn: If you charge more money and don't provide more service, don't plan on hanging on to your customers unless you're the only game in town. John C. Rossmann, Synergistic Systems (uunet!synsys!john)
jon@savant.UUCP (Jon Gefaell) (07/09/90)
In article <391@synsys.UUCP> john@synsys.UUCP (John C. Rossmann) writes: >In <44666@ism780c.isc.com> support@ism780c.isc.com (Support account) writes: > > >>The following will hopefully help to clear up any confusion regarding the >>support policies of INTERACTIVE. >Seeing this message from ISC's product support manager must fill the ESIX >folks with joy -- if I were one of them, I'd have popped a bottle of Dom >Perignon! > I wanted to add my Nickel's Worth here.... The folks at ESIX OBVIOUSLY feel quite diferently than the folks at ISC Thank the goddess for that. I've called them (ESIX) TOO much, and they're always professional, concerned, and competent. What can I say, when I read this thread about the 'support' offered by ISC I can only shake my head. I am responsible for a large number of sites at U.Va., and they use a large number of products. Invariably, the larger companies treat the customer like old garbage... Until consumers stop being martyrs, they (vendors like ISC, Novell, IBM, Lotus, Ashton Tate, etc..) will continue to do the very least they can to help us, and even show outright contempt.. -- +----------- Domain? DOMAIN? We Don't Need No Steeeenkin' Domain! -----------+ | __/\ | | \/~~ | +-savant!jon@virginia.edu {...}!uunet!virginia!savant!jon jeg7e@virginia.edu-+
root@usaos.UUCP (SSG W.D. Calhoun (postmaster)) (07/10/90)
In this thread, I have seen mostly unfavorable experiences related. The one I am about to relate does not bear on Tech Support, but does pertain to the support of 'small-time' users in general. I was informed be an employee (as a result of a posting I made in another newsgroup) that there was a free fix disk for sendmail in 386/ix 2.0.2. Although I have never dealt with ISC directly, I had been following the thread here regarding their support and was dreading the thought of calling them. To make a long story short, I called the first 800 number I saw on the Authorized Distributors list (the Distribution Division in Hollis, NH) and after aboout a 10 second wait, was connected with the representative for my area (VA). She was polite, sounded experienced, and VERY helpful. She told me that she would have the X7 fix shipped to me and also provided me with a decent price quote on the 2.2 upgrade (200.00 for the Application Starter upgrade). Although I suppose it is possible that she worked from notes or references, she seemed to know the details off the top of her head. We even spent a minute talking about her son. All-in-all, a very pleasant exchange. If the fix disk gets here in a reasonable time, and the upgrade price works out to be correct, I'll be suitably impressed. She knew 'up-front' that I was making the inquiry as a private party, not as a corporation. She didn't even ask about how long I had owned the package or for proof of ownership. If I received this kind of response every time I dealt with a vendor, I'd be a happy guy. I know that this one experience will not change the way some people think about ISC, but it goes a long way toward keeping me as a customer. --- W.D. Calhoun The U.S. Army Ordnance School at Fort Belvoir, VA calhoun@usaos.UUCP | uunet!usaos!calhoun
news@pegasus.com (Usenet News) (07/10/90)
> >Seeing this message from ISC's product support manager must fill the ESIX >folks with joy -- if I were one of them, I'd have popped a bottle of Dom >Perignon! > >One point to Mr. Alcorn: If you charge more money and don't provide more >service, don't plan on hanging on to your customers unless you're the only >game in town. > I too, am beginning to think it might be better to switch than fight. Does anyone have some experiences they can share on switching from ISC to ESIX? Thanks.
bill@ssbn.WLK.COM (Bill Kennedy) (07/10/90)
In article <1990Jul10.012711.4314@pegasus.com> news@pegasus.com (Usenet News) writes: [ ... support groans ... ] >I too, am beginning to think it might be better to switch than fight. > >Does anyone have some experiences they can share on switching from ISC >to ESIX? Which brings up an interesting point for Everex. When Microport went face down SCO (Interactive also, I think) said that they would "upgrade" you for a fee. You sent your money and your boot disk, poof! A current OS with an existing vendor. My treacherous mind wonders what response Everex would get if they did a "give me your tired and poor" number on Interactive, Intel, or any other vendor who we're mad at at the moment... Wait a minute! The AT&T license fee has been paid, we gotta send in original boot/install diskettes, Everex could legally upgrade us just like SCO and ISC did when Microport hit the wall. I'm interested, is Everex interested? -- Bill Kennedy usenet {texbell,att,cs.utexas.edu,sun!daver}!ssbn!bill internet bill@ssbn.WLK.COM or attmail!ssbn!bill
cjp@beartrk.beartrack.com (CJ Pilzer) (07/10/90)
Is this a company that resells ISC? If so could post the name and number so that we can buy some product from such a good source? -- cj
david@csource.oz.au (david nugent) (07/10/90)
In <391@synsys.UUCP> john@synsys.UUCP (John C. Rossmann) writes: > 3) Given the loads of messages here, magazine articles, etc., any > software company should understand by now that most resellers > are not capable of giving support to sophisticated end users. > That's what many of you have tried to tell ISC in this thread; > Mr. Alcorn's message shows that he doesn't care - or can't hear > you. I agree 1000%. When reasonably complex technical questions arise, it seems that the resellers are in precisely the same boat. They can't get answers and feel less compelled to insist on getting them. In real life, this new policy just does not work. The end result is that the end users feels even more hurt and helpless. While I've now resolved most of the problems I initially had, I felt it took eight weeks too damn long. Not only that, but resellers and VARs loose credibility and good reputation AS WELL as ISC; few people these days believe the line that support is 'coming'. It MUST hurt the product in the long run. I really wish ISC would reconsider, since I otherwise can't recommend their product enough. -- _______________________________________________________________________________ Unique Computing Pty Ltd Melbourne Australia - Communications Specialists david@csource.oz.au 3:632/348@fidonet 28:4100/1@signet