aland@infmx.UUCP (Dr. Scump) (08/15/89)
In article <36325@bu-cs.BU.EDU> madd@buit15.bu.edu (Jim Frost) writes: >... >You can get a mostly-complete version of Interactive for about $1000. >It will cost you more if you want NFS and troff, less if you don't >care about X windows or networking. ENIX is something like $600-$700 >for the whole system, Xenix is out-of-sight ($2000+ for a usable >system, something like $3000 if you want troff). > >jim frost software tool & die madd@std.com Where have you seen 386/ix for this price? Please let me know. Current list for just the OS and development system is $1400. Their biggest bundle (with X11, TCP/IP, NFS, VP/ix, development system, and X11 development system) is *$3000*, and that omits the Text Processing system ($350) and TEN/PLUS ($140). Even if you get the 1-2 user versions, if you want just the OS and DS and VP/ix, you're looking at $1450 retail. Not exactly Microport pricing. Reference: Interactive 386/ix Suggested List Prices, 1/89. -- Alan S. Denney @ Informix Software, Inc. {pyramid|uunet}!infmx!aland "I want to live! -------------------------------------------- as an honest man, Disclaimer: These opinions are mine alone. to get all I deserve If I am caught or killed, the secretary and to give all I can." will disavow any knowledge of my actions. - S. Vega
johnl@esegue.uucp (John R. Levine) (08/16/89)
In article <2111@infmx.UUCP> aland@infmx.UUCP (alan denney) writes: >In article <36325@bu-cs.BU.EDU> madd@buit15.bu.edu (Jim Frost) writes: >>You can get a mostly-complete version of Interactive for about $1000. >Where have you seen 386/ix for this price? ... Programmer's Connection, 800-336-1166 (or +1 216 494 3781) has the 1-2 user package of runtime, software development, and text processing for $989 including shipping. Add VP/ix and Ten/Plus and it's $1299. The TCP/IP and NFS combo is another $539. This is the 1-2 user version, but keep in mind uucp logins don't count. -- John R. Levine, Segue Software, POB 349, Cambridge MA 02238, +1 617 492 3869 {ima|lotus}!esegue!johnl, johnl@ima.isc.com, Levine@YALE.something Massachusetts has 64 licensed drivers who are over 100 years old. -The Globe
palowoda@megatest.UUCP (Bob Palowoda) (08/18/89)
From article <1989Aug16.020438.5662@esegue.uucp>, by johnl@esegue.uucp (John R. Levine): > In article <2111@infmx.UUCP> aland@infmx.UUCP (alan denney) writes: >>In article <36325@bu-cs.BU.EDU> madd@buit15.bu.edu (Jim Frost) writes: >>>You can get a mostly-complete version of Interactive for about $1000. > >>Where have you seen 386/ix for this price? ... > > Programmer's Connection, 800-336-1166 (or +1 216 494 3781) has the 1-2 user ^^^^^^^ [where's my BIC] I really would like to express my displeasure to the marketing bozo's who ever came up with this idea of 1-2 user versions of UNIX. [flick flick flick] Some companies (like SCO) sell a two user version with no upgrade path. Remeber the days when unix came as real *unlimited* user system with no other standard. [pass me the flame thrower please] What happen some got in there and said here's a good market trick. [FLAME ON!!] Before you know it there will be 5 user systems at a more reasonable price than 4 and 3 users systems at a more reasonable price than 2. And than after that we can sneak in 32 user version and also have a unlimited version. I hope to appeal to all the new potential unix buyers out there, that one day you may need more than 2 users and you just may pick up the phone and say "Yes how many more single user copies would you like to be for your multi user system." Please only quote unlimited multi-user unix prices. [Pofff!] > package of runtime, software development, and text processing for $989 > including shipping. Add VP/ix and Ten/Plus and it's $1299. The TCP/IP and > NFS combo is another $539. This is the 1-2 user version, but keep in mind > uucp logins don't count. Do they have a upgrade path? Disclaimer: These are my opionions. -- Bob Palowoda *Home of Fiver BBS* login: bbs Work: {sun,decwrl,pyramid}!megatest!palowoda Home: {sun}ys2!fiver!palowoda (A XBBS System) 2-lines BBS: (415)623-8809 2400/1200 (415)623-8806 1200/2400/9600/19200
darryl@ism780c.isc.com (Darryl Richman) (08/19/89)
In article <7186@megatest.UUCP> palowoda@megatest.UUCP (Bob Palowoda) writes:
" I really would like to express my displeasure to the marketing bozo's
" who ever came up with this idea of 1-2 user versions of UNIX.
Talk to AT&T. This is their idea. We wouldn't have bothered with it
(I believe) if their lawyers hadn't decided to make us do it. It's
their scheme and their implementation. They get a bunch more royalty
for machines with more than 2 users. This may change with V.4, since
I understand that the royalty schedule is going to change once again
(as it has for just about every release since V.2).
--Darryl Richman
--
Copyright (c) 1989 Darryl Richman The views expressed are the author's alone
darryl@ism780c.isc.com INTERACTIVE Systems Corp.-A Kodak Company
"For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant, and wrong."
-- H. L. Menckenmadd@bu-cs.BU.EDU (Jim Frost) (08/21/89)
In article <2111@infmx.UUCP> aland@infmx.UUCP (alan denney) writes: |In article <36325@bu-cs.BU.EDU> madd@buit15.bu.edu (Jim Frost) writes: |>... |>You can get a mostly-complete version of Interactive for about $1000. | |Where have you seen 386/ix for this price? Please let me know. I called them and told them I needed a 2-user development system with networking (ie TCP/IP) and X11R3. They told me that they sold a "Workstation" package which should do what I need, and the cost was something like $1100. This omits troff and NFS, which will cost a bit more. It may also omit VP/ix but that's worthless to me so I didn't ask. I expect that by poking around retailers you can get better prices than list, although I haven't tried it yet. |Reference: Interactive 386/ix Suggested List Prices, 1/89. Eight months is a long time in this business :-). jim frost software tool & die madd@std.com
davidsen@sungod.crd.ge.com (ody) (08/22/89)
In article <7186@megatest.UUCP> palowoda@megatest.UUCP (Bob Palowoda) writes: | Some companies (like SCO) sell a two user version with no upgrade path. | Remeber the days when unix came as real *unlimited* user system with | no other standard. Please quote your source for this statement, such as an order number. I ordered about 40 copies of Xenix over the years, and I have not seen any such version. If it's available it would be useful, if it's false you should correct yourself. | [pass me the flame thrower please] | What happen some got in there and said here's a | good market trick. | | [FLAME ON!!] Someone noticed that UNIX was being run on all these little machines, and that it would be nice for a single user PDP-11 to be able to have a less expensive license, with one user being the console and one for remote use. Is there something wrong with the idea of having a cheaper version of something which satisfies the needs of many users at a lower price? Why the flame? bill davidsen (davidsen@crdos1.crd.GE.COM) {uunet | philabs}!crdgw1!crdos1!davidsen "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me
jiii@visdc.UUCP (John E Van Deusen III) (08/22/89)
I was curious what the licensing arrangement would be for ISC or SCO Unix running on several machines interconnected by ethernet, but supporting only one user. -- John E Van Deusen III, PO Box 9283, Boise, ID 83707, (208) 343-1865 uunet!visdc!jiii
davidsen@sungod.crd.ge.com (ody) (08/22/89)
In article <31830@ism780c.isc.com> darryl@ism780c.UUCP (Darryl Richman) writes: | In article <7186@megatest.UUCP> palowoda@megatest.UUCP (Bob Palowoda) writes: | " I really would like to express my displeasure to the marketing bozo's | " who ever came up with this idea of 1-2 user versions of UNIX. | | Talk to AT&T. This is their idea. We wouldn't have bothered with it | (I believe) if their lawyers hadn't decided to make us do it. It's | their scheme and their implementation. I doubt that AT&T "made you do it." You say they get a higher royalty for the unlimited version, why would they force you to offer a less expensive version? As far as I know every vendor who offers the 2 user version also offers the unlimited. Why do people think that there is something wrong with having the option of buying something less expensive? bill davidsen (davidsen@crdos1.crd.GE.COM) {uunet | philabs}!crdgw1!crdos1!davidsen "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me
darryl@ism780c.isc.com (Darryl Richman) (08/22/89)
In article <1792@crdgw1.crd.ge.com> davidsen@crdos1.UUCP (bill davidsen) writes: "In article <31830@ism780c.isc.com> darryl@ism780c.UUCP (Darryl Richman) writes: "| In article <7186@megatest.UUCP> palowoda@megatest.UUCP (Bob Palowoda) writes: "| " I really would like to express my displeasure to the marketing bozo's "| " who ever came up with this idea of 1-2 user versions of UNIX. "| "| Talk to AT&T. This is their idea. We wouldn't have bothered with it "| (I believe) if their lawyers hadn't decided to make us do it. It's "| their scheme and their implementation. " " I doubt that AT&T "made you do it." You say they get a higher royalty "for the unlimited version, why would they force you to offer a less "expensive version? AT&T offers two levels of licensing fees. The cheaper one is for 1-2 users. The more expensive one is for unlimited users. We (ISC), and everyone else, want to provide the product at the best price we can. The license fee represents a fixed cost in the product, and must be passed on to the buyer. If we offer only an unlimited system, many people who want a single user machine will buy a competitor's cheaper product. If we sell only a 1-2 user product, it won't be sufficient for many people's needs, and they'll go elsewhere. I reiterate--it's AT&T's scheme, they made us do it, and, since we have a history of not offering such a tiering, I believe that we would not have done it otherwise. " As far as I know every vendor who offers the 2 user version also "offers the unlimited. Why do people think that there is something wrong "with having the option of buying something less expensive? There is nothing wrong with offering a cheaper version. AT&T believes that their product is worth more when more people are using it. They have effectively made everyone who resells their product toe that line. It is a hassle for us and for the users, however. I don't know if we offer an upgrade path, but if we do, I'm sure we send out a whole new system and ask you to do an upgrade installation, which will replace most of your system files and require you to reconfigure the kernel to your hardware. *That* is a hassle. --Darryl Richman -- Copyright (c) 1989 Darryl Richman The views expressed are the author's alone darryl@ism780c.isc.com INTERACTIVE Systems Corp.-A Kodak Company "For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken
plocher%sally@Sun.COM (John Plocher) (08/23/89)
In article <31898@ism780c.isc.com> darryl@ism780c.UUCP (Darryl Richman) writes: >offer an upgrade path, but if we do, I'm sure we send out a whole new >system and ask you to do an upgrade installation, which will replace >most of your system files and require you to reconfigure the kernel to >your hardware. *That* is a hassle. Microport's "Unlimited user upgrade" consists of a single disk which when installed with "installit" will modify the system in place to accept more than 2 users. It will not destroy any user-modifiable files, and it can be backed out (by hand, not automatically). Sure, this makes it easy to buy 2 dozen limited systems and one ultd upgrade, but we figured that the risk of someone doing that (when it was a direct violation of the licensing agreement) was acceptable when compared to the pain of making the user reinstall the whole system. -John Plocher
dpi@loft386.UUCP (Doug Ingraham) (08/23/89)
In article <1792@crdgw1.crd.ge.com>, davidsen@sungod.crd.ge.com (ody) writes: > > As far as I know every vendor who offers the 2 user version also > offers the unlimited. Why do people think that there is something wrong > with having the option of buying something less expensive? > > bill davidsen (davidsen@crdos1.crd.GE.COM) > {uunet | philabs}!crdgw1!crdos1!davidsen > "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me Its not the less expensive part that bothers me. Its the idea of selling something you went out of your way to cripple for less money. I purchased an unlimited license so I don't know exactly how it was done. I would guess that the crippling is in getty, or login because I understand you can still have any number of uucp dialouts going. If it is done in getty or login, it is easy to get around. Write your own getty/login replacement. I suppose this would violate your 2 user license agreement. It surprises me that the marketing genius that thought of this didn't come up with a whole tier of prices based on exactly the number of users allowed on. $500 base + $50/user. Extra effort == Lower cost. -- Doug Ingraham (SysAdmin) Lofty Pursuits (Public Access for Rapid City SD USA) uunet!loft386!dpi
palowoda@fiver.UUCP (Bob Palowoda) (08/23/89)
From article <1790@crdgw1.crd.ge.com>, by davidsen@sungod.crd.ge.com (ody): > In article <7186@megatest.UUCP> palowoda@megatest.UUCP (Bob Palowoda) writes: > > | Some companies (like SCO) sell a two user version with no upgrade path. > | Remeber the days when unix came as real *unlimited* user system with > | no other standard. > > Please quote your source for this statement, such as an order number. > I ordered about 40 copies of Xenix over the years, and I have not seen > any such version. If it's available it would be useful, if it's false > you should correct yourself. Ross Oliver (SCO Tech Support) posted it about a month or two on the net. If I remember correct, there was a student asking about a "cheap" version of Xenix. Than Ross posted a message that he checked on it and there was no upgrade path. > > | [pass me the flame thrower please] > | What happen some got in there and said here's a > | good market trick. > | > | [FLAME ON!!] Arrgh! Two spelling errors. :-() How embarrassing. > > Someone noticed that UNIX was being run on all these little machines, > and that it would be nice for a single user PDP-11 to be able to have a > less expensive license, with one user being the console and one for > remote use. Is there something wrong with the idea of having a cheaper > version of something which satisfies the needs of many users at a lower > price? Why the flame? For some reason I though that UNIX was designed as a unlimited multi-user, multi-tasking OS. If you take your idea a little further they could sell UNIX with a limited process table even cheaper. It's just an opionon anyway, but I just view it as good start for the marketing pea shuffle game. Will find out what happens to the future releases. If they wanted to sell a cheaper version why didn't they just reduce the price of the *unlimited* version. There is nothing I can do about the priceing policy. As my company buys 40+ copies of UNIX/XENIX a year I can at least throw my .02 in. ---Bob -- Bob Palowoda *Home of Fiver BBS* login: bbs Home {sun,dasiy}!ys2!fiver!palowoda (415)-623-8809 1200/2400 Work {sun,pyramid,decwrl}!megatest!palowoda (415)-623-8806 1200/2400/9600/19200 Voice: (415)-623-7495 Public access UNIX system
clewis@eci386.uucp (Chris Lewis) (08/25/89)
In article <509@loft386.UUCP> dpi@loft386.UUCP (Doug Ingraham) writes: >Its not the less expensive part that bothers me. Its the idea of selling >something you went out of your way to cripple for less money. I purchased >an unlimited license so I don't know exactly how it was done. I do (at least in ISC). It ain't crippled - the two user system is *exactly* the same as the multiuser. >I would >guess that the crippling is in getty, or login because I understand you >can still have any number of uucp dialouts going. If it is done in getty >or login, it is easy to get around. Um, no. This won't work. They were sneakier than that. >Write your own getty/login replacement. >I suppose this would violate your 2 user license agreement. It surprises >me that the marketing genius that thought of this didn't come up with a >whole tier of prices based on exactly the number of users allowed on. >$500 base + $50/user. Extra effort == Lower cost. They didn't because having two versions is bad enough. Supporting several more tiers would be too hard to administer. Though, a 4 user version would be nice. And, no, I'm *not* going to tell anybody how it's done. If you want to upgrade your 2 user ISC to multi-user, call your distributor, they may tell you how to do it yourself, provided that you pay the license differential. Or, they may try to rip you off by charging you the whole price. Actually, I guess the principal difficulty would be with the paperwork of ensuring that the AT&T license police see that the proper fees have been paid (thru the distributor and ISC). -- Chris Lewis, R.H. Lathwell & Associates: Elegant Communications Inc. UUCP: {uunet!mnetor, utcsri!utzoo}!lsuc!eci386!clewis Phone: (416)-595-5425
bote@csense.UUCP (John Boteler) (08/25/89)
From article <7186@megatest.UUCP>, by palowoda@megatest.UUCP (Bob Palowoda): > I really would like to express my displeasure to the marketing bozo's > who ever came up with this idea of 1-2 user versions of UNIX. > > [flick flick flick] > Some companies (like SCO) sell a two user version with no upgrade path. > Remeber the days when unix came as real *unlimited* user system with > no other standard. > What happen some got in there and said here's a > good market trick. > Do they have a upgrade path? You mean 'an upgrade path'? Although you may find it impossible to believe, there really are applications where there is only need for the features of the 2-user SCO offering, requiring absolutely no upgrade path. Data acquisition, standalone voice mail systems where the system itself is the network (TM), and other special purpose applications where paying less for getting less satisfies the requirements. Look out, see far. -- Bote Old & Improved path!: uunet!comsea!csense!bote New & Improved path!: {zardoz|uunet!tgate|cos!}ka3ovk!media!cyclops!csense!bote
plocher%sally@Sun.COM (John Plocher) (08/26/89)
>I would >guess that the crippling is in getty, or login because I understand you Microport's setup involved getty and kernel internals - if you replaced getty with your own version then the system would fail to boot and print a "L" on the screen. The intent was to have a user call in and "give himself in" - Hi, Tech Support? Yes, who is this? John Q Customer Support Number? 123456789 What's the problem? When I Boot it hangs after printing a "L" .... You have a "Limited" version? Well, uh, yes Were trying to bypass the limit? Uh... Let me transfer you to Sales - they can sell you a Ultd user Upgrade... Why? Because AT&T wanted $150/copy for a ultd user system base package. Microport wanted to be able to charge $99/copy for their low-end product. They negotiated with ATT and came to an agreement that Microport would modify the system to prevent more than 2 users at the same time and ATT would only charge $50/copy. I didn't like this policy, but without it the entry price for Unix back then would have been closer to $300... -John Plocher
karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Karl Denninger) (08/27/89)
In article <123668@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> plocher@sun.UUCP (John Plocher) writes: >>I would >>guess that the crippling is in getty, or login because I understand you > >Microport's setup involved getty and kernel internals - if you replaced >getty with your own version then the system would fail to boot and print a "L" >on the screen. The intent was to have a user call in and "give himself in" - Only if he wasn't literate with the Unix system. It turned out that even for unlimited licenses you still had to keep the real getty on the console, or the system would barf. However, the remainder of the lines could be spawned off something else, eg: /etc/autobaud. We discovered this the hard way on our _unlimited_ kernel when the system wouldn't come back up after installing our replacement getty. I wasn't pleased, but the fix was very, very simple :-) While I never checked it, I suspect that our methodology probably would have worked to bypass the "user limit" as well. -- Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, <well-connected>!ddsw1!karl) Public Access Data Line: [+1 312 566-8911], Voice: [+1 312 566-8910] Macro Computer Solutions, Inc. "Quality Solutions at a Fair Price"
djd@scgrp.UUCP (David Dmytryshyn) (08/02/90)
I'm looking for recommendations for a UNIX for a 386. I'd like one which includes a c compiler and a GUI, and is of a moderate price, though I'm willing to pay more for a quality package. If this has been discussed before (which I imagine it has) a summary of the last time it was discussed would be great. I'll summarize ALL that I get (i.e. including new email sent) for anyone interested. Thanks.. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: David Dmytryshyn EMAIL: djd@scgrp.UUCP SC Group, Toronto, Canada uunet!mnetor!scgrp!djd ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::