dekel-elan@YALE.ARPA (Elan Dekel) (01/23/89)
I was wondering if the USAF and the Israel Air Force have ever conducted joint training sessions, esp. involving dogfights between pilots on both air forces. I would be very interested in knowing how the American pilots would match up against the Israelis, who are widely regarded as being the best fighter pilots in the world. I would also be interested in hearing about any other joint military operations, training or otherwise, between the US and Israel.
mayse@p.cs.uiuc.edu (01/26/89)
From: mayse@p.cs.uiuc.edu Something bears pointing out concerning this "best fighter jocks" business. The result of a fighter engagement has a lot to do with equipment. I think it's fair to say that in most of the engagements in which the IAF has run up its impressive results, it was up against opposition which was using somewhat inferior equipment, not to mention doctrine or command-and-control strategy. Reputedly, the IAF has implemented its own modifications on many of its aircraft and missiles, the best of which came originally from here. The IAF is essentially a single-purpose organization; much like the RAF during the Battle of Britain, it's primarily a short-range, daylight, defensive fighter force. They have been able to optimize and fine-tune their equipment for this mission; the compromises this imposes on the other capabilities originally built into the equipment can be more readily accepted by the IAF than by, say, the USAF, which must have multirole aircraft (even the F-15 is becoming a part-time dive bomber). Yes, the IAF folks have been superbly successful in short-range dogfighting, and have also done well at things like blowing up Iraqi nuclear plants not surrounded by things like SAM-9's and ZSU-23's. Before I will concede them the "best fighter jock" title, though, I want to see how well they do some of the other things fighter jocks must do, and in unoptimized equipment. I want to see them fly Jaguars and A-7's across Loch Lomond when there's 300 feet of clear air between the lake and the clouds, and mountains every- where. I want to see them land 44K lbs of F-14 on a pitching carrier deck in a 20-kt, gusty crosswind. I want to see them fly an attack mission involving bad weather, nasty terrain, a competent sea-level to 70,000-ft defense environment at the target, and two inflight refuelings each way. And, while we're at it, let's see one of them fly a Thunderbirds demon- stration and then step out of the cockpit, looking not only presentable but actually rakish, and sign autographs for a solid hour and a half. (Try this some time, with or without the flying). I am not aware that any meaningful competitive evaluation of the IAF's fighter folks, under conditions that neutralize other contributing factors, has ever taken place--or ever could. Like everyone else, they could be expected to do well in their customary environment, and suffer somewhat from relative lack of experience in anyone else's. They have certainly done well the things they have had to do in their national interest, and maybe that's the most we can fairly say.