gahooten@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Greg A. Hooten) (04/19/89)
From: gahooten@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Greg A. Hooten) My grandfather was a Lt. Commander in the U.S. Navy. He is now deceased, but my grandmother told me that he was a translator between the U.S. and Russia during WWII. One mission was to help translate coded messages from the U.S. to Russian aboard a Russian Submarine that was being transfered to a U.S. base. I don't remember why the sub was being moved, but apparently it was not just one, but a group of them being moved. During the mission, the change of daily codes was missed while nearing the U.S. coast, and when the sub contacted a U.S. Destroyer with the wrong code clearence, the sub was depthcharged. The sub sat on the bottom for some time, but eluded the pursuit after a time with little damage. This would seem uncomfortable to be a U.S. officer in a semi-friendly alies vessel being depthcharged by your own people. What my question is, does anyone know more about this mission? Why were they moved? ANY information would be wonderful. Grandfather would never talk about his involvement with me, and the only mission I ever heard about was through an article about him at the Bikini Atol A-bomb test. I want to know more. Greg Hooten GAHOOTEN@ames.arc.nasa.gov
henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) (04/22/89)
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) >This would seem uncomfortable to be a U.S. officer in a >semi-friendly alies vessel being depthcharged by your own >people. "Friendly fire" is a constant hazard in wartime. It happens much more often than people think. A recent case in point: each side in the Falklands War scored at least one "own goal" aircraft kill. (In WW2 there was a standard joke about the aircraft recognition scheme supposedly used by AA gunners in Britain. It had just two categories: "approaching, presumed hostile" and "receding, presumed friendly".) Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu
crowley@spool.cs.wisc.edu (Sam Crowley) (04/24/89)
From: astroatc!crowley@spool.cs.wisc.edu (Sam Crowley) In article <5832@cbnews.ATT.COM> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >(In WW2 there was a standard joke about the aircraft recognition scheme >supposedly used by AA gunners in Britain. It had just two categories: >"approaching, presumed hostile" and "receding, presumed friendly".) My father was a B-17 pilot during the years 1943-44 in Europe. Most of this time fighter escort could not be provided for bombing missions deep into German held territory and the bombers had to defend themselves against fighter attack. The German fighters usual method of attack was to dive through the formation (for high speed to avoid the defensive fire of the formation) while firing at targeted bombers. He told me a couple stories of how he had seen some friendly fire directed at fighter escort of the bomber formations. One time a couple of British Spitfires flew by the formation, wiggled their wings and dove into the formation. They were fired at. He said word spread among the British pilots that the American bomber crews were trigger happy. One of the first times P-51s escorted the bombers they did something they had orders not to do, buzz the bomber formation. This time several fighters were shot down. The fighter pilots came over the radio screaming bloody murder. They were debriefed after they landed and the fighter pilots were disciplined for buzzing bomber formations. Nothing was said to the bomber crews. Both times the bomber formation were flying around 350mph and the fighters were flying over 400mph. At this speed he said you get very defensive and you assume anything flying through or at the formation is attacking. Sam Crowley astroatc!crowley
jac@paul.rutgers.edu (J. A. Chandross) (04/25/89)
From: jac@paul.rutgers.edu (J. A. Chandross) henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) >"Friendly fire" is a constant hazard in wartime. It happens much more >often than people think. A recent case in point: each side in the >Falklands War scored at least one "own goal" aircraft kill. There are a number of expressions in the FUBAR family that cover being shelled by your own side. The only one I can remember is "JANFU" - Joint Army Navy Fuck Up. There are a number of others. Jonathan A. Chandross Internet: jac@paul.rutgers.edu UUCP: rutgers!paul.rutgers.edu!jac