jharper%euroies.ucd.ie%CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (Jerry Harper) (06/03/89)
From: Jerry Harper <jharper%euroies.ucd.ie%CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> I have just finished a translation of Livy's account of the second Punic war. Some of the battles I recalled from my Latin classes of many years ago, but I cannot remember what exactly the translator (Aubrey de Selincourt) could have meant by "missiles", as carried by the light infantry and legionaires, excepting the standard *pilum* and light spears. Could anyone enlighten me as to the other types of missiles provided to the Roman infantry man? Just as an afterthought, I would also like a reference on the construction of siege engines and artillary pieces deployed in this period (indee, up to mediaeval times if possible). Jerry Harper jharper@euroies.uucp AI Research Centre tel: 353-1-693244 x 2484 Computer Science Department University College Dublin Dublin 4 IRELAND
gswan@watcgl.waterloo.edu (George Swan) (06/05/89)
From: gswan@watcgl.waterloo.edu (George Swan) Jerry Harper asked some questions about roman missiles, namely what other `missiles' could have been carried by members of the roman legions, besides various kinds of spears, and where he could find a description of Roman siege engines. Scientific American published an article a few years ago on Roman siege engines. I suspect that the missiles referred to in the translation he was reading referred to stones thrown from a sling, like the one David was supposed to have used on Goliath. I read a biography of Hannibal that explained that the Balearic Isles (Minorca and Majorca) in the Mediterranian, got that name because the inhabitants were recognized to be mean men with ballista. Cordially, Geo Swan
pierson@cimnet.dec.com (06/06/89)
From: pierson@cimnet.dec.com In article <7100@cbnews.ATT.COM>, jharper%euroies.ucd.ie%CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (Jerry Harper) writes... Jerry Harper inquires, in part: >From: Jerry Harper <jharper%euroies.ucd.ie%CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> >.... >Just as an afterthought, I would also like a reference on the construction >of siege engines and artillary pieces deployed in this period (indee, up to >mediaeval times if possible). The one I have is "The Crossbow" by Payne-Galwey(sp?). (first name escapes me). I believe this is originally ca 1920, mine is a mid 50's reprint. Its been reprinted at least once since. No ISBN, sorry. Roughly 30% of 250 pages is various siege engines, including the full scale, functional replicas Payne-Galwey built... [mod.note: I'll add a book I skimmed several years ago. "Engineering in the Ancient World", as I recall the title; author unknown. The book covered lots of other stuff, such as shipbuilding, architecture, roads, plumbing, etc, etc, and also talked about construction of siege engines. - Bill ] Thanks dave pierson !the opinions are my own, Digital Equipment Corp !the facts as true as i can manage 600 Nickerson Rd Marlboro, Mass 01742
fiddler@Sun.COM (Steve Hix) (06/07/89)
From: fiddler@Sun.COM (Steve Hix) In article <7100@cbnews.ATT.COM>, jharper%euroies.ucd.ie%CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (Jerry Harper) writes: > > From: Jerry Harper <jharper%euroies.ucd.ie%CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> > I have just finished a translation of Livy's account of the second Punic war. > Some of the battles I recalled from my Latin classes of many years ago, but > I cannot remember what exactly the translator (Aubrey de Selincourt) could > have meant by "missiles", as carried by the light infantry and legionaires, > excepting the standard *pilum* and light spears. Could anyone enlighten me > as to the other types of missiles provided to the Roman infantry man? The Roman engineers either carried along (if small) or built on the spot (if sizable) various projectile seige devices. A not-too-ancient Scientific American cover article was on the development of the crossbow. Part of it described Roamn developments in low-drag projectiles. Instead of using a long, slender shaft with fletching (high drag, but a *lot* easier to use with a normal bow), they developed several short bolts with somewhat complexly varying cross-sections. The bolts had much less drag than normal arrows, with comparable accuracy. Sorry I don't remember the issue date. The article referred to a number of previous publications and books on the subject. seh
mr10+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Reed) (06/08/89)
From: Michael Reed <mr10+@andrew.cmu.edu> Jerry Harper <jharper%euroies.ucd.ie%CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (Jerry Harper)> writes: >I have just finished a translation of Livy's account of the second Punic war. >Some of the battles I recalled from my Latin classes of many years ago, but >I cannot remember what exactly the translator (Aubrey de Selincourt) could >have meant by "missiles", as carried by the light infantry and legionaires, >excepting the standard *pilum* and light spears. Could anyone enlighten me >as to the other types of missiles provided to the Roman infantry man? One reader has already posted that the 'Roman missiles' of your post might be sling bullets, lead egg-shaped castings or ovoid rocks used in slings of the period. About ten years ago [I just remember it fleetingly, so please forgive] Scientific American did an article on the effectiveness of slings in medieval and earlier warfare, and it turned out that the classic David-type sling was not only more accurate than most if not all bows, but it also had a greater range [around 20%, if memory serves] than most, as well. Like bowmen, slingers were typically light infantry, armed also with short swords or other "light" weapons. Thus, a company of slingers was a VERY good thing in those days. Lestrade "Do not come to this university."
moshe@cbnewsc.ATT.COM (Moshe Yudkowsky) (06/15/89)
From: moshe@cbnewsc.ATT.COM (Moshe Yudkowsky) >[mod.note: I'll add a book I skimmed several years ago. "Engineering in >the Ancient World", as I recall the title; author unknown. The book >covered lots of other stuff, such as shipbuilding, architecture, >roads, plumbing, etc, etc, and also talked about construction of >siege engines. - Bill ] The book you probably want is the superlative "The Ancient Engineers" by L. Sprauge DeCamp. Read it and weep -- some Roman engineer knew more than you do on how to build some of the simplest objects... [mod.note: Speak for yourself, buddy ! 8-) Anyway, while I'm told DeCamp is an excellent book, it is not the one to which I refer. Guess I'm going to have to get hold of the friend from whom I borrowed it. - Bill ] -- Moshe Yudkowsky moshe@ihnet.att.com att!ihnet!moshe "Nothing so comforts the military mind as a maxim of a great but dead general." -- Barbara Tuchman