military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker) (06/29/89)
A question was put to me today concerning the history of grenades; in particular, their presence in the US during the Revolutionary war and following decade or so. I did a little research, which only confirmed the confusion of this topic; I'm hoping some readers can fill in some gaps in the following facts. According to _Weapons - An International Encyclopedia from 5000 B.C. to 2000 A.D._, grenades seem to have appeared in the 16th Century, and were commonly used within the next 100 years. By the 1700's, they were quite widespread, especially favored for siege warfare. At that time, a hand grenade resembled the standard "cartoon bomb"; a cast iron sphere, filled with gunpowder, fitted with a piece of fuse. At this point, special troops, Grenadiers, were trained in the use of grenades. However, by the 1800's, that term had come to mean instead an elite unit of infantry (according to _Wilhelm's Military Dictionary and Gazeteer_ of 1881, "the first company of every battalion on foot.") I'm guessing that the term "grenadier" is French, and was copied by the other nations which used that term; however, I'm uncertain when they copied it; thus, it may be that Britain, for example, never used the term in its original implementation, but only to refer to elite infantry. This is somewhat supported by the fact that German used the term grenadier (e.g., Panzergrenadier) for infantry, yet their word for "grenade" (and also "shell") is "granate" (e.g., "handgranate (hand grenade), "granatewerfer" (mortar), "panzergranate" (tank shell).) The British, too, confused terminology; as late as WWII, they referred to some hand grenades as grenades, others as bombs. Wilhelm's 1881 work defines "grenade" as a "shell thrown from the hand or in barrels from mortars of large caliber". It also defines "bomb" as a similar shell fired from mortars or howizers," noting that these are also called shells. Hence, there is a great deal of confusion in the terms "grenade", "bomb", and "shell." Consider,too, the Star Spangled Banner: "the bombs bursting in air." So... can anyone clarify this confusing history ? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Thacker moderator, sci.military military@att.att.com (614) 860-5294 "War is a matter of vital importance to the State; the province of life or death; the road to survival or ruin. It is mandatory that it be thoroughly studied." - Sun Tzu
henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) (07/05/89)
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) >... confusion in the terms "grenade", "bomb", and "shell." >Consider,too, the Star Spangled Banner: "the bombs bursting in air." Which, of course, were in fact rockets! (Really. Congreve solid-fuel war rockets were standard equipment for the British armed forces at the time. They passed out of use later, when "tube artillery" (guns) got better.) Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu
dkrause@ORION.CF.UCI.EDU (Doug Krause) (07/07/89)
From: Doug Krause <dkrause@ORION.CF.UCI.EDU> In article <7950@cbnews.ATT.COM> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) > >>... confusion in the terms "grenade", "bomb", and "shell." >>Consider,too, the Star Spangled Banner: "the bombs bursting in air." > >Which, of course, were in fact rockets! The song actually goes "the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air". So both are mentioned. Just more confusion for us all! :-) Douglas Krause CA Prop i: Ban Gummie Bears(tm)! -------------------------------------------------------------------- University of California, Irvine ARPANET: dkrause@orion.cf.uci.edu Welcome to Irvine, Yuppieland USA BITNET: DJKrause@ucivmsa
fugate@roma.sw.mcc.com (Bryan Fugate) (07/12/89)
From: milano!fugate@roma.sw.mcc.com (Bryan Fugate) The word 'Panzergrenadier' in the WWII German Wehrmacht originally meant the motorized infantry that operated organic to the Panzer divisions (the word 'Panzer' means 'armor'. As far as I can tell the term became generic to all motorized infantry whether or not they operated within a division or corps that carried the 'Panzer' designation. At any rate, the Panzergrenadiers were a Wehrmacht designation, quite distinct from the Waffen SS motorized infantry.
hhm@ihlpy.ATT.COM (Mayo) (07/12/89)
From: hhm@ihlpy.ATT.COM (Mayo) > >>... confusion in the terms "grenade", "bomb", and "shell." > >>Consider,too, the Star Spangled Banner: "the bombs bursting in air." > > > >Which, of course, were in fact rockets! > > The song actually goes "the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air". > So both are mentioned. Just more confusion for us all! :-) No confusion at all. The British used large flat-bottomed launches which typically carried two large mortars forward. Some ,I believe, were also equipped with rocket racks. These craft were normally used during water bourn sieges, and were in common use in the war against France as well. Key, being a prisoner of the British at the time, had a bird's eye view of the seige of fort McHenry, and was inspired to write that song, the the name of which escapes me right now :-) Larry