gahooten@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Greg A. Hooten) (09/01/89)
From: gahooten@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Greg A. Hooten) I heard a story about Vietnam fighting knives before. It explained that the serrations along the back of the knife were place there (and were deepened for) to cut thorough the aluminum skin on helicopters and airplanes. Mostly helicopters. So, if a man is stuck in one, he could cut an alternate exit or enlarge one. They do cut a lot of things, but I have never cut aluminum with one, especially aircraft aluminum. Is there any validity to this? Outside of utility like this, it seems a waste, it is not a combat essential for fighting, but seems more as a tool. Any info? Greg Hooten GAHOOTEN@ames.arc.nasa.gov
ehr@uncecs.edu (Ernest H. Robl) (09/05/89)
From: Ernest H. Robl <ehr@uncecs.edu> In article <27067@amdcad.AMD.COM>, gahooten@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Greg A. Hooten) writes: > I heard a story about Vietnam fighting knives before. It > explained that the serrations along the back of the knife were > place there (and were deepened for) to cut thorough the > aluminum skin on helicopters and airplanes. First it's worth pointing out that thare was no one single type of "Vietnam fighting knife" as such. Various units were issued various types of knives, depending on their missions. These included the standard M-7 bayonet. What you are probably referring to is the Air Force survival knife, which was also issued to personnel in other military services. (I'm far from being an expert on military knives, but I did tote one of these for the eight months that I served in Vietnam, 1969-1970 -- even though I was in the Army.) The survival knife is indeed intended as much as a multi-purpose tool as a weapon. One example of this is the hexagonal butt that can be used for hammering (or smashing through things, such as a plexi- glass canopy). Another is the serration on the back for heavy-duty cutting. As far as I know this knife is still in use today -- and you can buy it from many of the companies that sell military-related items. Though the only thing I ever used my survival knife for was cutting of food when no other appropriate cutlery was available, I did spend a good deal of time flying on both large and small aircraft of many types. In several cases, the pilot and I were the only ones aboard, giving me a chance to talk. (Also, as part of my job writing up daily action reports -- mentioned in an earlier posting on equipment reliability -- I had access to field reports which described how and why aircraft went down.) There were a couple of things that became very clear to me from these sources. One of these was that fire was the biggest threat in a crash landing. Another was that in some cases the buckles on the seat/ shoulder harnesses locked up on impact, and that you might have to cut yourself free. For that reason many of the helicopter and small fixed- wing aircraft pilots and crewmen that I knew wore their survival knives strapped to their legs. If you are belted in, and the knife is on your belt, it's under the seat-belt harness and hard to get at when you need to cut yourself loose. As far as getting out of a downed aircraft -- it's important to remember that much of the exterior skin of small aircraft such as light helicopters is VERY thin sheet metal. That skin is for aerodynamics only. Larger aircraft with pressurized cabins are a quite different story. You'd spend a lot of time trying to saw through that type of metal with any kind of hand tool. The threat of fire (burning, and not in the sense of "enemy fire") was also the main reason that almost all the aircraft crew members I knew would not wear the canvas-side jungle boot but rather opted for all-leather boots which gave better protection in such a situation. -- Ernest My opinions are my own and probably not IBM-compatible.--ehr Ernest H. Robl (ehr@ecsvax) (919) 684-6269 w; (919) 286-3845 h Systems Specialist (Tandem System Manager), Library Systems, 027 Perkins Library, Duke University, Durham, NC 27706 U.S.A.
steve@uunet.UU.NET (Steve Nuchia) (09/06/89)
From: nuchat!steve@uunet.UU.NET (Steve Nuchia) In article <27067@amdcad.AMD.COM> gahooten@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Greg A. Hooten) writes: >explained that the serrations along the back of the knife were >place there (and were deepened for) to cut thorough the >aluminum skin on helicopters and airplanes. It is plausible that the serations were designed with that function in mind. Military aircraft are equiped with a variety of escape and rescue fittings. On transport types (including utility helos) there is often an area stenciled "cut here for rescue" with the corners of a hatch-sized rectangle marked off. The designers ensure that this area is a patch of aluminum with no structual, cable, or furniture pieces behind it. You could cut it with a good strong stick but a big serrated knife probably works better. >like this, it seems a waste, it is not a combat essential for >fighting, but seems more as a tool. Any info? Don't forget that a lot of modern combat consists of sitting around in the woods playing boy scout. A "combat" knife is a very handy tool around the campfire. -- Steve Nuchia South Coast Computing Services uunet!nuchat!steve POB 890952 Houston, Texas 77289 (713) 964 2462 Consultation & Systems, Support for PD Software.
random@nwgpb.att.com (Dave L Pope) (09/09/89)
From: random@nwgpb.att.com (Dave L Pope) [Movies are often a dubious source of information, but does anyone know if this technique is used for real? Sounds like a good way to ruin a knife. --CDR] I once saw a movie involving a stealthy infiltration of a guarded compound, and a large serrated edge knife was used in one scene to stab a sentry walking on the other side of a 4' high (or so) wall and, with a twist and a yank, jerk the body over the barrier. It seems that similar applications could help in game-getting, climbing, etc. Of course I have NO combat experience so this plan may be totally unworkable. Random