ehr@uncecs.edu (Ernest H. Robl) (10/03/89)
From: Ernest H. Robl <amdcad!ehr@uncecs.edu> This may be a bit of a stretch for this newsgroup, but it does touch on the role of the military in peacetime and the discussion on the future of the military in previous articles. There's been considerable reporting on the news about the displeasure of both individuals and government officials in the areas hit by Hurricane Hugo about the speed -- or rather lack of the same -- in Federal assistance. One of the things I had been looking for -- and of which I have seen little evidence in news reports -- would have been a major use of military resources. No, I'm not talking about soldiers to help keep order. Rather, it appears that the requirements for dealing quickly with a major natural disaster are much the same as the requirements for operating a major military presence in a hostile environment. The military -- particularly the Army -- has all sorts of highly mobile communications gear, portable generators capable of supporting fairly large bases, and, of course, all types of field kitchen facilities for feeding large numbers of people. It also has stockpiles of tents, kots, field sanitation equipment, etc., which can at least provide basic protection from the elements. It has vehicles well suited to travelling through all types of terrain and a substantial helicopter airlift capability. Yet, based on the news reports that I've seen, very little of this capability was used. Not only would this use have provided an excellent public relations boost for the forces involved, it would also have served as a good "rapid deployment" test. One of the reasons that I bring this up is that some 20 years ago -- forgive me if a few of the facts are a bit hazy, but this is all from memory -- while stationed at Ft. Bragg, N.C., I was on one of the first aircraft (military or otherwise) to land at Gulfport, Miss., after Hurricane Camille hit the area. (I was an information specialist at the headquarters public information office, and my job was to write about and photograph activities of the Army personnel in the disaster area. My stories and photographs went out as news releases to a variety of media, and were also used in the Ft. Bragg newspaper as well as in civillian newspapers in the Fayetteville area.) The plane that I was on carried both field telephone switching equipment and generator gear. Other planes in the same flight also brought down similar gear from the Ft. Bragg/Pope AFB area. One of the stories that I recall doing while in the Gulfport area was on how well Vietnam type airlift capabilities had been adapated to the disaster. Three major types of helicopters were used as follows: Light observation helicopters did the first survey work, touching down at many isolated farms to check on the condition of the occupants and to see what types of supplies were needed. UH-1s then followed up on these initial reports (mostly made by radio), bringing in supplies or making medical evacuations. These helicopters operated out of quickly set up forward staging areas which were in turn supplied by the larger Chinook cargo helicopters which ferried supplies in from the airport. My basic question is this: Why weren't the military capabilities used this time? A week after the storm hit, I saw reports of FEMA workers having victims fill out forms by *flashlight* lighting at assistance centers. Is there a national policiy for the use of military units in such situations? (I assume there isn't.) And, who makes the decision to commit military resources? Does this have to come from the President? Just some things to think about. -- Ernest My opinions are my own and probably not IBM-compatible.--ehr Ernest H. Robl (ehr@ecsvax) (919) 684-6269 w; (919) 286-3845 h Systems Specialist (Tandem System Manager), Library Systems, 027 Perkins Library, Duke University, Durham, NC 27706 U.S.A.
kiravuo@kampi.hut.fi (Timo Kiravuo) (10/05/89)
From: kiravuo@kampi.hut.fi (Timo Kiravuo) Here in Finland military has been used for a long time for odd jobs and emergencies. Every military installment has about a platoon's worth of men ready to dash off, where ever they are needed. Since we have a conscript army, the men are not trained for this kind of work, but they are a cheap and readily available source of manpower. Usually army is needed for accidents and searching lost people from woods. I once spent a night searching for a man who had drowned under ice. We had to go through nearby islands just in case he had survived. We hace a civilian protection plan for any kind of emergencies, which includes military as part of it, as well as police etc. But I think that the control usually is with the civilian authorities, military only being part of the task force. We don't really have any natural disasters here, but man-made disasters are sufficent (accidents, oil spills etc.) -- Timo Kiravuo Helsinki University of Technology, Computing Center work: 90-451 4328, home: 90-676 076 kiravuo@hut.fi sorvi::kiravuo kiravuo%hut.fi@uunet.uu.net
jwm@stdc.jhuapl.edu (Jim Meritt) (10/05/89)
From: jwm@stdc.jhuapl.edu (Jim Meritt) From: Ernest H. Robl <amdcad!ehr@uncecs.edu> }This may be a bit of a stretch for this newsgroup, but it does }touch on the role of the military in peacetime and the discussion }on the future of the military in previous articles. I sort of wonder why there is a power shortage in Charleston, given that there is a nuclear submarine (trapped) pierside. Any ideas? When a hurricane hit Mississippi a decade or two ago, an LHA powered Pascagula using on-board diesel generators. Why not a nuclear power plant? [mod.note: I'll add another precedent. In the winter of 1929-30, the aircraft carrier Lexington provided power for the city of Tacoma, Washington after a drought rendered their hydroelectric plant useless. Lexington used steam-electric drive, where boilers powered turbines which operated generators. - Bill ] -- "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world." - Calvin ............................................................................. jwm@aplvax.jhuapl.edu,jwm@aplvax.uucp,meritt%aplvm.BITNET,jwm@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu
wrf@mab.ecse.rpi.edu (Wm Randolph Franklin) (10/11/89)
From: wrf@mab.ecse.rpi.edu (Wm Randolph Franklin) In <9937@cbnews.ATT.COM> jwm@stdc.jhuapl.edu (Jim Meritt) writes: > >I sort of wonder why there is a power shortage in Charleston, given that >there is a nuclear submarine (trapped) pierside. Any ideas? I vaguely remember that when a surprise hurricane hit Hawaii a few years ago (the weather sat was out), all the generators were out so there was no available power to jump start the generators. They tried to use a nuclear sub, but I don't know if it worked because of different frequencies and voltages. -- Wm. Randolph Franklin Internet: wrf@ecse.rpi.edu (or @cs.rpi.edu) Bitnet: Wrfrankl@Rpitsmts Telephone: (518) 276-6077; Telex: 6716050 RPI TROU; Fax: (518) 276-6261 Paper: ECSE Dept., 6026 JEC, Rensselaer Polytechnic Inst, Troy NY, 12180
stuart@rennet.cs.wisc.edu (Stuart Friedberg) (10/11/89)
From: stuart@rennet.cs.wisc.edu (Stuart Friedberg) The US Army used to operate (perhaps still does) two "barges" with on-board nuclear power plants. These barges are towed wherever power is needed. I remember a news item circa '74-'77 where one was anchored off the Panamal Canal zone, with large cables strung to the shore, hooked into a jerry-rigged power transmission system. I said "barges", because the vessels were actually decommissioned (non-nuclear) naval ships. The Army had to remove the propulsion systems, because they are not allowed to operate ships or boats anywhere but in-land waters (for example, under the Corps of Engineers). Even as a teenager, I thought that was an exceptional example of "preserving the peace" between Services at the expense of common sense. Stu Friedberg (stuart@cs.wisc.edu)
smb@ulysses.homer.nj.att.com (Steven M. Bellovin) (10/14/89)
From: smb@ulysses.homer.nj.att.com (Steven M. Bellovin) One problem, apparently, is the current shortage of commercial cargo planes. According to a recent N.Y. Times story, the demand for such planes is so high right now that relief operations for Hugo disrupted a lot of schedules, and even then they couldn't get as many planes as they wanted for the relief effort. (Note: I am talking about civilian planes; the military wanted to charter them.)