wmartin@STL-06SIMA.ARMY.MIL (Will Martin) (10/05/89)
From: Will Martin <wmartin@STL-06SIMA.ARMY.MIL> First off, thanks to all who responded to my "Future of the Military" posting; it appears the consensus of opinion is to not be too trusting just yet... Also thanks for the pointer to WINDING DOWN; I checked it out of the St. Louis Public Library. (In case anyone else is interested in this book, here is the data on it: WINDING DOWN - The Price of Defense, by The Boston Study Group, 1979. Originally published by Times Books; reprinted by W. H. Freeman & Co, 1982, with a new preface. ISBN 0-7167-1498-1, 359 pages.) When reading thru it, I ran across something that reminded me of a subject I had wondered about in the past and never did track down an answer to. That concerns the numeric designations for units of the US Army. It is sort of ironic that I work for the Army, and have for many years, and still don't know this. It is largely due to the fact that there are just about no uniformed personnel at the civilian agencies I've worked at, and the civilian side seems to know very little about this sort of esoteric detail regarding military units. My question is: what determines the numeric unit desgnators for Army units, and how are they chosen? I've looked in a couple books I have of '50's vintage -- The Officers Guide and The Army Almanac -- and they don't explicitly answer the query. The Almanac does have some tables of units that appear to begin to address the subject, though. For example, Winding Down mentions units like the "172nd Infantry Brigade," the "193rd Infantry Brigade," and the "197th Infantry Brigade." It also mentions units like the "1st Armored Division" and the "9th Infantry Division." What I wondered about is where the numbers like "172", "193", and "197" came from, and why they are still in use, and how come it was those particular units that still exist. What happened to unit #171 and 173, 192 and 194, and so forth, that they disappeared while these others still exist? Low-numbered units (the "1st This" or the "3rd That") are fairly straightforward, but the higher numbers are confusing. The tables in the Army Almanac seem to (as well as I can interpret them) list a lot of these unit designators that were set up around World War I and have been maintained since then. At first it appeared to me that the whole point of this was to have unique and distinct unit designators that were never repeated -- that is, one unit is 193 and another is 194, and no other unit will ever get those numbers, even if those units are disbanded and eliminated. The numbers appeared to be initially assigned in sequence, without much correllation between unit type and the form of the number -- that is, a supply unit could be 181 and an infantry unit could be 182, though some categories had all their units in the "300" series, and so forth. However, this breaks down when you look at current units. There is a "2nd Armored Division" AND a "2nd Infantry Division". So the number "2" is used on both of these. There went the "unique" designators! Can anyone post a summary explanation of all this? What does determine that this unit is the "3rd Whatsit Division" and that unit is the "404th Something Brigade"? And, if these numbers are all from some arrangement that has been set up for 70+ years, what has determined, during all the build-ups and wind-downs in the intervening years, that this particular unit has continued and still exists today, while these others have been eliminated and no longer exist? Regards, Will Martin
howard@cos.com (Howard C. Berkowitz) (10/07/89)
From: howard@cos.com (Howard C. Berkowitz) > My question is: what determines the numeric unit desgnators for Army > units, and how are they chosen? I've looked in a couple books I have of > '50's vintage -- The Officers Guide and The Army Almanac -- and they > don't explicitly answer the query. The Almanac does have some tables of > units that appear to begin to address the subject, though. > > Can anyone post a summary explanation of all this? What does determine > that this unit is the "3rd Whatsit Division" and that unit is the > "404th Something Brigade"? And, if these numbers are all from some > arrangement that has been set up for 70+ years, what has determined, > during all the build-ups and wind-downs in the intervening years, that > this particular unit has continued and still exists today, while these > others have been eliminated and no longer exist? Let me try a partial explanation, primarily from memory. The main system is for regiments. As a side note, a unit number and type (e.g, 11th Armored Cavalry, 505 Airborne, etc.) is a regiment; other unit types (e.g, 1/505 Infantry Battalion) include the unit "level" -- although you certainly can speak of the 7th Air Cavalry Regiment. As I recall, regiment numbers from 1 to 100 (99?) are regular army. Regiments from 100 (101?) to some number are National Guard, while higher numbered ones are Army Reserve. Airborne regiments are in the 500 series. Battalions identifiers usually are subordinate to a regimental ID (e.g., 1/506 Airborne Infantry Battalion). Note that even while regiments go in and out of fashion as a command level (e.g., in the Pentomic division structure, there were "Battle Groups" with no regimental or battalion level, just lots of companies). There are also separate battalions, frequently combat support and combat service support. Certain organic battalions (i.e., part of a division base) are numbered for the division (e.g., 4th Signal Battalion in the 4th Division). Separate brigades (i.e., not part of divisions) currently are mostly in the 19x series. Divisions seem to have unique numbers only within a type -- there is a 1st Infantry Division ("Big Red One"), 1st Cavalry Division (which has been dismounted infantry and now is Air Assault), and 1st Armored Division. For that matter, there is a 1st Marine Division. -- howard@cos.com OR {uunet, decuac, sun!sundc, hadron, hqda-ai}!cos!howard (703) 883-2812 [W] (703) 998-5017 [H] DISCLAIMER: Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the Corporation for Open Systems, its members, or any standards body.
major@beaver.cs.washington.edu (Mike Schmitt) (10/16/89)
From: ssc-vax!shuksan!major@beaver.cs.washington.edu (Mike Schmitt) In article <10009@cbnews.ATT.COM>, howard@cos.com (Howard C. Berkowitz) writes: > > > From: howard@cos.com (Howard C. Berkowitz) > > > My question is: what determines the numeric unit desgnators for Army > > units, and how are they chosen? I've looked in a couple books I have of > > '50's vintage -- The Officers Guide and The Army Almanac -- and they > > don't explicitly answer the query. The Almanac does have some tables of > > units that appear to begin to address the subject, though. > > > > Can anyone post a summary explanation of all this? What does determine > > that this unit is the "3rd Whatsit Division" and that unit is the > > "404th Something Brigade"? And, if these numbers are all from some > > arrangement that has been set up for 70+ years, what has determined, > > during all the build-ups and wind-downs in the intervening years, that > > this particular unit has continued and still exists today, while these > > others have been eliminated and no longer exist? Let's see if I can help here: All active Army regiments are organized under the US Army Regimental System. Their historical records are maintained by the Army Center of Military History. Thier Coat of Arms, Lineage & Honors are maintained by the Army Institute of Heraldry. These are 'color bearing' regiments (about 195 of 'em). Which means they carry distinct Regimental Colors (flags) with their own campaign streamers. While there is no "Regiment Headquarters and Staff" the battalions that 'belong' to these regiments are active (or inactive) and can be stationed with a variaty of Divisions. Example: 28th Infantry Regiment (Black Lions) formed in 1917, Cantigny France as a part of the 1st Infantry Division. Today, the 1st Battalion/28th Inf is stationed with the 1st Inf Div at Fort Riley, Kansas. The 2/28 Inf is with the 8th Inf Div in Europe, and the 3/28 Inf is with the 1st Inf Div Forward in Germany (my info may be dated). 1st Cavalry Regiment (Dragoons) was organized in 1833 as the 1st Regiment of Dragoons. It fought in the Mexican War earning five battle streamers. Redesignated the 1st Cavalry Regiment in 1862 it fought in the Peninsula, Antietam, chancellorsville, Gettybburg, Petersburg, and Shendoah campaigns. Then the regiment returned to the Western Frontier. It fought in Cuba, participating in the assault on San Juan Hill and remained in Cuba until 1900 when it was shipped to the Phillipines. Then returned to patrol the US-Mexican border. In 1932 it became mechanized. In 1940 it became part of the 1st Armored Division. It fought in North Africa and Italy. The regiment was on occupation duty in Germany until 1948. It returned to Fort Hood and the 1st Armored Division. During Vietnam the 1st Squadron/1st Cavalry with the 23rd Infantry Division and was awarded a Presidential Unit Citation for Tam Ky and Hoi an (1968). The 1st Squadron is now with the 1st Armored Division in Germany. The 2nd Squadron serves with the 2nd Armored Division. The 3rd and 6th Squadrons are inactive. The 4th Squadron serves at West Point. Now, I include all this lengthy dialogue to show that every unit in the US Army is rich with history and that the pride and esprit' of its soldiers come with the awareness of this history. To say that you are serving with a unit that traces its history all the way back to the Revolutionary War (1st Infantry Regiment, 2nd Infantry Regiment) has got to be exciting indeed. The oldest unit on continious active duty is D Battery, 1st Battalion, 5th Artillery (Hamilton's Own), currently serving with the 1st Infantry Division, Ft Riley. It traces its lineage all the way back to 1781 when it was the only unit left on active duty (after the Revolutionary War) to guard West Point. So, designations of military units have everything to do with history. A lot of pride and loyalty is attached to these units by soldiers past and present. Societies of former members have organized to preserve the history and memories of these units. Well, I've gotten off the track on unit designations - and this is quite long. So - any more questions on the Regimental System? Major Mike 1st Infantry Division (Big Red One) 3rd Infantry Division (Rock of the Marne) 7th Infantry Division (Bayonet)