karlth@rhi.hi.is (Karl Thoroddsen) (10/12/89)
From: karlth@rhi.hi.is (Karl Thoroddsen) Now one week after the failed Coup in Panama several questions surface. According to news bulletins the U.S army helped the rebels by blocking the roads to the presidential palace. Could the army have done more? How strong is the U.S army in Panama? And would an U.S intervention have been a mistake, from a military point of view? Yours faithfully Karl Thoroddsen [mod.note: For the purposes of sci.military, let's restrict replies to what the Army could have done, and what forces are deployed in Panama. The last question Karl asks is better addressed in talk.politics.misc, I feel. - Bill ]
cyrius@cs.utexas.edu (Juan Chen) (10/14/89)
From: ut-emx!walt.cc.utexas.edu!cyrius@cs.utexas.edu (Juan Chen) In article <10148@cbnews.ATT.COM> karlth@rhi.hi.is (Karl Thoroddsen) writes: > > >From: karlth@rhi.hi.is (Karl Thoroddsen) > >Now one week after the failed Coup in Panama several questions surface. >According to news bulletins the U.S army helped the rebels by blocking the >roads to the presidential palace. Could the army have done more? It wasn't the presidential palace, but rather the Defense Forces HQ, which BTW is just a stone trow away from the Canal Zone. The presidential palace is just a three story bldg. that doesn't even have a fence around itself. >How strong is the U.S army in Panama? And would an U.S intervention have >been a mistake, from a military point of view? > The Army's 183rd Infantry(?) are the ones stationed down there that I recall seeing all the time throughout my childhood and early college days, but I don't know their numerical strength. The Army & Marine groups sent there earlier this year may still be there, but people I've called don't want to say much about anything over the phone. Too many spy movies I think...The heaviest hardware I recall seeing are APCs (not M113, but wheeled vehicles, not tracks) and some small artillery pieces. The Air Force is mainly C-130, Dragonflies (?) and lots of Hueys and the odd Chinook. Then again, a lot of troops go for training down there year round, from astronauts to Special Ops, Thunderbirds (F-4s back when I first saw them) to B-52s. Could intervention have been possible, yes. The best roads are in the Canal Zone and lead to the area where Noriega's HQ is. But then again, it is not up to the soldiers, but to the politicians. It is an odd picture, because Noriega's HQ is a couple of blocks away from the avenue that americans (zonians) call Fourth of July and us natives call Avenida de los Estudiantes. This road is effectively the "border" the marks where the Canal Zone starts (before the treaties went into effect). So acrross the street from the HQ is Ancon Hill and Balboa Heights former american civilian neighborhoods and up the road west is the Canal and just past that are Fort Kobee, Howard AFB, and a Naval base whose name I can't recall. All clustered about five miles up the road from Mr. Noriega. And if you follow the Canal a couple of miles north, is Fort Clayton. Fort Albrook is closer to Panama City, but I don't think there are any active troops there. It is the former site of the School of the Americas. Forty minutes away (driving at legal speeds) are all the bases in the Atlantic side. > -------- "...There's more than one answer to these questions -------- Juan G. Chen cyrius@dopey.cc.utexas.edu University of Texas@Austin (or grumpy, or doc, or happy...) P.O. Box 8362 128.83.135.10 Austin, TX 78713 -------- pointing me in a crooked line..." Indigo Girls --------
major@beaver.cs.washington.edu (Mike Schmitt) (10/19/89)
From: ssc-vax!shuksan!major@beaver.cs.washington.edu (Mike Schmitt) In article <10148@cbnews.ATT.COM>, karlth@rhi.hi.is (Karl Thoroddsen) writes: > > > From: karlth@rhi.hi.is (Karl Thoroddsen) > > Now one week after the failed Coup in Panama several questions surface. > According to news bulletins the U.S army helped the rebels by blocking the > roads to the presidential palace. Could the army have done more? > How strong is the U.S army in Panama? And would an U.S intervention have > been a mistake, from a military point of view? The US Army South has its headquarters at Fort Clayton but it probably doesn't have too many combat troops at it disposal other than Military Police units. The 193rd Infantry Brigade (Separate) is also stationed at Fort Clayton. I'm not sure of its structure - but it probably has at least 3 (and maybe 4) battalions of infantry - and as a separate brigade, its own organic artillery, engineers, and other combat support and combat service support elements. In situations like this I would suspect that the priority of effort for the Brigade would go something like 1) protection of itself and Americans and facilities 2) contigency plans for a variety of response/action And with #2 - remember the Army follows orders. It did what it was ordered to do. And if it didn't do anything - it was probably ordered not to. Also, at a moment's notice Rapid Deployment troops out of the 82d Airborne Division (Fort Bragg, NC) could be airdropped to support the 193d. But they weren't. I'll answer the last from a soldier's point of view: Only politicians make mistakes. The military either succeeds in its mission - or fails to do so. :-) :-) major