[sci.military] Misplaced Posting

henryc@cs.umr.edu (Henry Clark) (10/18/89)

From: henryc@cs.umr.edu (Henry Clark)
Bill,

  I think someone wanted to post this but they sent uploaded via ftp
to here.  I really don't care if people want to forward stuff to me for
me to forward to you if they can't directly reach you as long as they 
know you're the moderator...

Henry

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Gentlemen:
I am sending this via FTP because cadets at West Point do not
have email capabilities.  The powers-that-be forgot about FTP
procedures, thus I must rely on them.  Please review, and post
this response in regard to the "Army in Panama."  Thank you
very much.

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cyrius@dopey.cc.utexas.edu replies:
>>How strong is the U.S army in Panama? And would an U.S intervention have
>>been a mistake, from a military point of view?
> The Army's 183rd Infantry(?) are the ones stationed down
>there that I recall seeing all the time throughout my childhood
>and early college days, but I don't know their numerical strength.

The 193rd Infantry Brigade is stationed in the Canal Zone, Panama.
The brigade is composed of two battalions, the 5/87 Infantry and
the 1/508 Infantry (Airborne).  The 5/87 is stationed at Ft Clayton
and the 1/508 is on the other side of the Canal at Ft Kobbee.
The deployed units are still there which include units from the 7th
Infantry Division and the 5th Infantry Division.  There are several
engineer and military police units (as well as others) deployed
there.  I cannot indicate which Marine units were deployed there.

>I recall seeing are APCs (not M113, but wheeled vehicles, not tracks)
>and some small artillery pieces.

Units from the 5th ID brought their M113's.  Believe me, they are
everywhere.  The Marines use LAV's (Light Armored Vehicles) which are
wheeled vehicles.  They, too, are everywhere.  There is only one
artillery unit, D Battery 320th FA, stationed in Panama.  D Batt is
at Ft Kobbee.  An additional battery from the 7th ID is deployed to
the Atlantic side of the Canal at Ft Sherman.  I cannot tell which
battery is presently there since they rotates on a regular basis.
Both D Batt and the deployed 7th ID Batt are M102 (105mm) howitzer
units.

>The Air Force is mainly C-130, Dragonflies(?) and lots of Hueys and
>the odd Chinook.

First, the Air Force does not deal with Hueys or any other helicopters.
That is US Army domain.  Howard Air Force Base is a major air base,
used as the midpoint between the States and South America.  There are
plenty of C-130's, but also C-5's and C-141's.  I remember seeing at
least 2 Spectre gunships.  There were Dragonflies, A-4, and, I think
I saw them, F-4's.  The US Army has Hueys, Cobras, Blackhawks, and
Chinooks in Panama, primarily Blackhawks.  To dispel uncertainty, the
Air Force has helicopters for utility purposes but none in Panama
that I am aware of.


>... a lot of troops go for training down there year round,
>from astronauts to Special Ops, Thunderbirds (F-4s back when I first
>saw them) to B-52s.

Both US Army, National Guard, and Air National Guard units rotate
to Panama regularly.  While I was in Panama, a battalion of Rangers
(don't know which) rotated out and a battalion from the 82nd rotated
in.  The 101st also rotates units to Panama frequently.  Groups of
people from the Drug Enforcement Agency were going through portions
of the Jungle Operations Training Center when I was there.  A Special
Operations airlift passed through as well.

>So across the street from the HQ is Ancon Hill and
>Balboa Heights former american civilian neighborhoods and up the road
>west is the Canal and just past that are Fort Kobee, Howard
>AFB, and a Naval base whose name I can't recall.
>...Fort Albrook is closer to Panama City, but I don't think there
>are any active troops there.
>It is the former site of the School of the Americas.

The Panamanian HQ is at Amador, which is jointly occupied by US and
Panamanian forces.  Amador is the Southern Command Naval Headquarters.
Most of the facilities there are US.  North of that are Corozal, Ancon,
and Ft Clayton.  All three are major Army installations.  Ft Clayton
is the only post with troops.  It is also US Army Southern Command
Headquarters as well as home of the 5/87 Infantry.  Ancon Hill which
is in the middle of Ancon and Quarry Heights is jointly occupied by
Panamanian and US forces.  Albrook Air Force Base is also north of
Amador.  Since it is an Air Force base, there are no active troops
there.  Howard Air Force Base receives the most traffic.  Albrook AFB
was and still is the home of the Air Force Academy of the Americas,
which is a training-the-trainer type school dealing with maintenance,
equipment, etc.  Not to be confused with the United States Air Force
Academy.  These places (and more unmentioned ones) are on the east
side of the Canal.  Ft Kobbee, Howard AFB, and Rodman Naval
Station are on the west side of the Canal.  While all of the above
locations are on the Pacific end of the Canal, Ft Sherman and Ft Davis
are on the Atlantic side.  One should remember that the Canal runs
north-northwest, not east to west.


DISCLAIMER: I was assigned in Panama with D Battery 320th FA for 5
weeks this summer as part of cadet summer training.  My information
comes from my experiences in Panama.  By no means do my opinions
reflect the opinions of the US Army, the 193rd Infantry Brigade, the
United States Military Academy, or the United States Corps of Cadets.


I am unable to receive email.  Therefore, send any responses via
the postal service.


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CADET ERIC DUTTON                |      United States Military Academy
PO Box 1449   Company G-1        |    Class of 90 - The Proud and Mighty
West Point, New York  10997      |         Go Army!!! - Beat Navy!!!
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cyrius@cs.utexas.edu (Juan Chen) (10/24/89)

From: ut-emx!walt.cc.utexas.edu!cyrius@cs.utexas.edu (Juan Chen)

  Allow me to make some final comments before letting this subject die.

>The Panamanian HQ is at Amador, which is jointly occupied by US and
>Panamanian forces.  Amador is the Southern Command Naval Headquarters.
>Most of the facilities there are US.  North of that are Corozal, Ancon,

   There is _A_ combined US/Panama HQ in Amador because of the treaties, 
given that the Pacific entrance to the Canal is there. It is NOT the
Headquarters of the Panamanian Defense Forces. That one was built many
years ago, even before the Torrijos years I'm sure. That was the one
where Noriega was at the time of the attemped coup. It is located
about 500 yrds. south of Ancon Hill in the area called Chorrillo, 
because of a creek that flowed from Ancon to that area when it was   
populated during the construction of the Canal. Amador's facilities
are indeed American built, because it WAS an American base until 1978 or 79.
Can you see Noriega sitting in Amador with US MPs outside his door?


Juan Chen                              Descendant of a Canal worker
University of Texas @ Austin                  \___/
cyrius@walt.cc.utexas.edu                       U
--------  "...There's more than one answer to these questions   --------
Juan G. Chen                            cyrius@dopey.cc.utexas.edu
University of Texas@Austin              (or grumpy, or doc, or happy...)
P.O. Box 8362                           128.83.135.10
Austin, TX  78713
--------   pointing me in a crooked line..."     Indigo Girls   --------