adrian%cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk@NSFnet-Relay.AC.UK (Adrian Hurt) (11/07/89)
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian%cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk@NSFnet-Relay.AC.UK> And now for something completely different. I assume that folks here have heard of the proposed tunnel under the English Channel, between south-east England and France. It seems to me that if it is completed, it will be a perfect target for terrorists. All it needs is a car full of baddies at each end, armed with assault rifles and probably grenades, and equipped also with radios or good watches for synchronisation, and they could hold the whole tunnel to ransom. Especially if they can get hold of enough explosive, of sufficient power, to put a hole in the tunnel. So where have I gone wrong? Is such an attack impossible? Or are we giving the IRA an offer they cannot refuse? "Keyboard? How quaint!" - M. Scott Adrian Hurt | JANET: adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian | ARPA: adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk
gwh%sandstorm.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (George William Herbert) (11/08/89)
From: gwh%sandstorm.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (George William Herbert) In article <11203@cbnews.ATT.COM> adrian%cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk@NSFnet-Relay.AC.UK (Adrian Hurt) writes: >From: Adrian Hurt <adrian%cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk@NSFnet-Relay.AC.UK> > >I assume that folks here have heard of the proposed tunnel under the English >Channel, between south-east England and France. It seems to me that if it is >completed, it will be a perfect target for terrorists. All it needs is a car >full of baddies at each end, armed with assault rifles and probably grenades, >and equipped also with radios or good watches for synchronisation, and they >could hold the whole tunnel to ransom. Especially if they can get hold of >enough explosive, of sufficient power, to put a hole in the tunnel. > >So where have I gone wrong? Is such an attack impossible? Or are we giving the >IRA an offer they cannot refuse? Modern structures and infrastructure are in general insanely vulnerable to terrorist attack. A bakcpack of explosives is enough to bring down many if not most major bridges, tunnels can be taken out... consider knocking a skyscraper over (colateral damage, anyone? ). Be glad few if any terrorists have engineering degrees. **************************************** George William Herbert UCB Naval Architecture Dpt. (my god, even on schedule!) gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu [maniac@garnet.berkeley.edu, but i don't check mail often] ----------------------------------------
miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant) (11/09/89)
From: "Stephen D. Grant" <miles@ms.uky.edu> In article <11203@cbnews.ATT.COM>, adrian%cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk@NSFnet-Relay.AC.UK (Adrian Hurt) writes: > > I assume that folks here have heard of the proposed tunnel under the English > Channel, between south-east England and France. It seems to me that if it is > completed, it will be a perfect target for terrorists. All it needs is a car > full of baddies at each end, armed with assault rifles and probably grenades, > and equipped also with radios or good watches for synchronisation, and they > could hold the whole tunnel to ransom. Especially if they can get hold of > enough explosive, of sufficient power, to put a hole in the tunnel. > These days, terrorists don't need specific targets. Their goal, remember, is instilling fear. They can do this numerous ways and means. It is true that any form of international transportation is an avenue to terrorism (planes, trains, buses, boats, road). However, I don't think the "Chunnel" will be any more a target than any other already standing structure or institution. The IRA has commonly sought to hit mainly military targets, at their source, although there have been some isolated incidents where off suty soldiers were shot outside their homes. However, the prospect of holding an International gateway like the 'Chunnel' hostage does have some interesting merits. What if something important like a head of state or such, or precious or deadly materials passed through the Tunnel? It might be a ripe place to pull off an assasination or hijack... > So where have I gone wrong? Is such an attack impossible? Or are we giving the > IRA an offer they cannot refuse? I think it all depends on the final configuration of the tunnel and how it will be monitored and controlled. Of course nothing is totally secure, and intelligence can't detect every terrorist action. Of course in all situations of international terrorism like this, it is a game of waiting, sometimes until it is too late. Time will only tell. Miles P.S. - I hope to cross in the Tunnel when it gets completed, it sounds like a cool idea, and beats the ferry crossing!
jb7m+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jon C. R. Bennett) (11/09/89)
From: "Jon C. R. Bennett" <jb7m+@andrew.cmu.edu> >It seems to me that if it is >completed, it will be a perfect target for terrorists. All it needs is a car >full of baddies at each end, armed with assault rifles and probably grenades, >and equipped also with radios or good watches for synchronisation, and they >could hold the whole tunnel to ransom. I belive that it is to be a train tunnel, so it will be possible to employ metal detectors, X-ray machines and exposive sniffers. >Especially if they can get hold of enough explosive, of sufficient power, >to put a hole in the tunnel. The entrances to the tunnel are not near the coast, so delivering an explosive device to a section of the tunnel under water would require stoping a train in the tunnel. You would also need a very powerful charge since the tunnel is either in clay or bedrock for the whole trip, which I belive make a terminal falure impossible (it would certinaly be fixable). Also would you want to be in the tunnel with the expolsives? Also, if you blow the tunnel you cut off any escape. The IRA tends not expend it's members on one way trips. >So where have I gone wrong? Is such an attack impossible? Or are we giving the >IRA an offer they cannot refuse? I suspect that the SAS is already making contingancy plans, for just such situations. Jon C. R. Bennett Operations System Programmer CMU Computer Science jcrb@cs.cmu.edu #include <disclaimers/std.h>
pierson@cimnet.dec.com (11/09/89)
From: pierson@cimnet.dec.com In article <11203@cbnews.ATT.COM>, adrian%cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk@NSFnet-Relay.AC.UK (Adrian Hurt) writes (in part)... .. >I assume that folks here have heard of the proposed tunnel under the English >Channel, between south-east England and France. It seems to me that if it is >completed, it will be a perfect target for terrorists. All it needs is a car >full of baddies at each end, armed with assault rifles and probably grenades, >and equipped also with radios or good watches for synchronisation, and they >could hold the whole tunnel to ransom. Especially if they can get hold of >enough explosive, of sufficient power, to put a hole in the tunnel. > .. The concern has been raised. It, in part, was presumably the reason for UK Government insisting that full "airport style" security checks be made at boarding stations, a proposal with serious impact on journey times. Also, one not being implemented on the Continental end, I believe. Note (for detail accuracy) that the "Chunnel" is a rail link, offering a mix of through passenger and freight and rollon/rolloff "trainferry" trains... The whole area of international terrorism and security is going to have some interesting implications with the "one Europe" integration in '92(?). At that time all border controls and passports are scheduled to go away for internal-to-EEC travel, as I understand it. The tunnel portal installations themselves, and associated car parks and yards, can be "secure areas". Note that until fairly recently Switzerland, for one, had security restrictions on tunnel portals for the mountain tunnels. thanks dave pierson |The facts as accurately as i can manage, 600 Nickerson Rd |The opinions, my own. Marlboro, Mass 01742 pierson@cimnet.enet.dec.com
pvo3366@sapphire.oce.orst.edu (Paul O'Neill) (11/10/89)
From: pvo3366@sapphire.oce.orst.edu (Paul O'Neill) In article <11280@cbnews.ATT.COM> jb7m+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jon C. R. Bennett) writes: >From: "Jon C. R. Bennett" <jb7m+@andrew.cmu.edu> > >>Especially if they can get hold of enough explosive, of sufficient power, >>to put a hole in the tunnel.... > ..... >>So where have I gone wrong? Is such an attack impossible? ..... > Unlike bridges, roads, airports, trains etc.; tunnels are extremely difficult to seriously damage with explosives. >I suspect that the SAS is already making contingancy plans, for just such >situations. Some contingency plans you may not have thought of: Because they are so hard to destroy, most tunnels are built with designed- in charge-chambers so that they *can* be destroyed if it is necessary. No transportation link is built without plans on how to destroy it. Paul O'Neill pvo@oce.orst.edu Coastal Imaging Lab OSU--Oceanography Corvallis, OR 97331 503-754-3251
jrll@portia.Stanford.EDU (john ralls) (11/15/89)
From: jrll@portia.Stanford.EDU (john ralls) In article <11243@cbnews.ATT.COM> gwh%sandstorm.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (George William Herbert) writes: > > Be glad few if any terrorists have engineering degrees. Actually, Yasser Arafat was a practicing Civil Engineer in Kuwait before he went back to Palestine to found Fatah. John