res@ihuxn.UUCP (Rich Strebendt) (04/05/84)
I am getting a bit hacked off at the sophomoric bad-mouthing of American designed and built cars. I am tired of the attitude that, if the car has a German or Japanese name, it is perfect, but, if it has an American name, it is trash. I have owned six cars thus far, with another on order. One was European, the others all were American. My comments on them: The first car I owned was a Renault Caravel. It lasted me a whole year of commuting to school. I traded it in at about 50000 miles (obviously, I bought it used). At that point, if I floored it, I could get up to about 10mph in a block or two. Maintaining it just about ate me alive. My next was a used '64 Ford with a small 6-cylinder engine in a full sized car. I got several good years of service from it and traded it in at around 80000 miles. It was in need of major engine work at that time and I did not want to mess with it. My next car was a new '69 Cougar. That was a real fun/luxury car, built on a Mustang chassis a couple of years before the Cougar became an Elephant. Most Major Repair: Patching up a leak in the radiator. It did come with a defect (a vent that would not close completely) that took several trips back to the dealer to partially fix. That dealer, incidently, is no longer in business. At 78000 miles I traded it in. During this same time I was married and thereby acquired access to an AMC Rambler. This was not a glamorous car, but was very dependable. We kept it past its 10th birthday, then sold it to a person who needed a dependable car to get back and forth to work. The next car was an Olds Cutlass. Most Major Problem: A leak in the radiator at about 50000 miles. Great car. Traded it in at about 76000 miles. We now have a Pontiac Phoenix of 1981 vintage. Fabulous car. Most Major Problems to date: Leak in the heater core and a shorted diode in the alternator. The first problem occurred at around 30000 miles, the second just lately at 41000. We dislike GM cars so rabidly [:-)] that we have just ordered a Pontiac Sunbird/2000 LE and are eagerly awaiting its delivery. I expect to get the car we wanted, without "mandatory options" or a jacked up price tag. The price we are paying is well under the sticker price, not OVER it. I cannot bad-mouth Japanese or German (or English or Italian or ... ) cars since I have not owned any. I can say that I have been quite pleased with the Ford and GM products I have owned over the last roughly 15 years. Yes, some individual cars have problems, and some models have problems (eg: VW's with oil seal problems). This is NOT to say that ALL products by ALL manufacturers of a particular nationality are trash. I, for one, intend to keep looking for the best VALUE I can find in a new car. I do not think at this time that over-priced imports provide that VALUE. Rich Strebendt ...!ihnp4!ihuxn!res
warren@ihnss.UUCP (Warren Montgomery) (04/05/84)
I think that a lot of the problem may not be in the cars but in the way that they are driven and maintained. Sure, some cars have design problems, but usually this is not a major contributor to repair bills. (The infamous VW valve seal was only a $140 repair job if you had to pay for it. That won't even cover a service check and tuneup from a dealer.) I think that much of the trouble people have with cars comes from poor driving habits (or just a poor mix of types of driving), lack of awareness of minor problems in their cars before they become major, and poor quality of mechanical work. I have a friend who used to work for GM and claimed that GM cars were designed to run for 5 years with the hood welded shut, because that was about all the attention they usually got. In the past at least, I think that a larger proportion of foreign car owners have been more aware of cars. They bought foreign cars because of their performance (and treated them lovingly) or their economy (and learned how to do a lot of maintenance themselves or found a good mechanic). Stories of american cars lasting forever abound as well, and just as in the VW that went over 200K miles, the cars were usually owned and maintained by people who understood cars and got minor problems fixed correctly before they became major ones. -- Warren Montgomery ihnss!warren IH x2494
stekas@hou2g.UUCP (J.STEKAS) (04/05/84)
It seems that lovers of American cars think that people who
buy foriegn cars do so only because they are unpatriotic,
stupid, or worse. Why is it so hard for Motown to accept
the fact that Americans who buy foriegn cars do so for their
own good reasons?
My impression of the American (rental) cars I drive is that they
are all rattling hulks equiped with an extra 2' of nose in front of the
engine for that "elegant" look, the standard 20 degrees of play in the
streering, a balky/rough-shifting automatic transmission, loose fitting
windows that whistle in the wind, and a 5 liter engine (sorry 305) putting
out just over 100HP. Granted, this doesn't describe ALL American cars,
but it's a pretty good description of what I've been driving.
Jimreview@drutx.UUCP (Millham) (04/05/84)
I'm glad to hear someone speak up for American cars finally. My parents have allways owned American, and so have I. The most major repair that I have ever had was a loose frost plug on a 70 Mercury with > 100K miles on it. I just traded a 82 Jeep (no repairs at all) for a 84 Dodge Daytona, and am looking forward to years of trouble free operation. Cars have feelings ya know. Don't bad mouth those Americans and the will treat you well! Brian Millham AT & T Information Systems Denver, Co. ...drutx!review
mth@drufl.UUCP (Hamilton) (04/06/84)
I fully agree with you, Rich. Wherever you can find the best value for your needs, wants, or limits (ie, bucks), you should go for it. It is true that anyone could have bad luck with any car, and therefore be unwilling to risk buying another. If you have good luck with a car, you probably will stick with its maker. That's life. Anybody can badmouth a particular car, maker, or country for one reason or another. I, for one, will not buy any European car until I can afford a 930 Turbo. I dont care if Hondas, VWs, Toyotas, Nissans, etc. are more reliable or get good gas mileage or whatever. I just plain cant stand them. The only ones that look half-way decent are BMWs (Which are going downhill), Ferraris, and Porsches. I'm glad I have a Vette and a Ford 4X4 Pickup that are paid off. They are both 76s and have several minor problems throughout each year, but I enjoy driving them (I dont know about anyone else, but I drive to have fun, not just to get where I am going). I'll take my stock 350 L82 with a Super T-10 4-speed, 373 rearend, P295/50s (rear) and P265/50s (front) T/As and outdrive any of you. Mark Hamilton drufl!mth
dmmartindale@watcgl.UUCP (Dave Martindale) (04/06/84)
I too buy cars for their VALUE. But my idea of value might not be the same as yours. American cars (at least some of them) seem to take complete neglect better than European or Japanese cars - this is certainly an element of value, and I consider this a point in their favour. And they are cheaper to repair. But there are other components of value too. My current car is a VW rabbit (built, but not designed, in the US). It is more responsive to throttle and steering input than anything else I've ever driven - I attribute this to fuel injection. Once it is warmed up, it NEVER hesitates when I step on the accelerator, and even when cold is runs better than many cars when warm. It has ALWAYS started in cold weather (but VW puts a heavier battery in Canada-bound cars - how many American manufacturers do that?) The steering is sensitive, with little play. The suspension is mushier than I like, but better than most American cars - I simply feel more in control of this car than any American car I've driven. And the controls and instruments are fairly well laid out, and functional. How many American cars seem to put styling before function? I haven't looked at cars for 3 years, but when I bought the rabbit it seemed to be the best value, given the things I care about, available. And unless the Detroit manufacturers have changed their philosophy since, I expect that to be still true.
chim@ncsu.UUCP (Bill Chimiak) (04/06/84)
There were good points made here. I have a 1971 240Z. It is still running, but the carburetor mixture adjustment screws are defective although useable. The external wiring corrodes. An internal wire was connected by ONE strand of the 4 or 5 strands available. The distributor's centrifugal advance was missing a counter weight! I had the less trouble with a 1969 Mercury Marquis Station wagon, and no where near the difficulty with a 1968 Dodge Dart. I had a friend with Ford Falcon that required nothing more than simple maintenance to keep it running. The old cars were designed and built very much to my liking. What I am hoping is that the durability of some of the cars like the old Falcons, old Darts, and old Cutlasses is designed into the newer cars.