hmueller@cs.utexas.edu (Hal Mueller) (06/27/90)
From: wfsc4.tamu.edu!hmueller@cs.utexas.edu (Hal Mueller) A Navy Fire Controlman (FC's do guided missiles) I worked with told me this story: He was stationed on a carrier in the days when it had a Terrier SAM. The mount was at the edge of and just below the flight deck. One day someone parked an F-4 too close to the edge, and when the missile crew brought their test round onto the launcher rail, the missile went through the plane's tail. He says the Air Boss really lost his temper when the missile crew painted an F-4 silhouette on the mount. -- Hal Mueller hmueller@cssun.tamu.edu n270ca@tamunix (Bitnet) Graduate Student, Department of Computer Science Research Assistant, Department of Wildlife and Fisheries Sciences Texas A&M University, College Station, TX 77843
tobin@acsu.buffalo.edu (Mike Tobin) (06/27/90)
From: hornet!tobin@acsu.buffalo.edu (Mike Tobin) There's really quite a lot of this is all theaters. My favorite is from the late '70's/early'80's when I was with the USAF in Germany. Two lucky F-4 crews got to go back to the States and be the first operational crews to live-fire the then-new AIM-9L. The USAFE Director of Ops was anxious to hear how they did. This is the news he received: Good News "Sir, the AIM -9L works just fine." Bad News "Viz ID (visual identification) doesn't. Crew A had shot down Crew B (no one hurt :-)). This despite elaborate breifings, highly restrictive rules of engagement, a saftey monitor in a third F-4 and constant radio contact among all participants. Not only that, the target was a QF-102 (a radio controlled F-102): about as dissimilar in appearance from an F-4 as another fighter can get. They were simply to anxious to get their first "kill".
styer@ms.uky.edu (Eugene Styer) (06/28/90)
From: Eugene Styer <styer@ms.uky.edu> >No specific info on the particular incident(s), but it would not be at all >surprising. "Own goal" hits are much more common than most people think, >particularly in operations like Panama, with activity all over the map and >no well-defined "front". In the Falklands War, for example, each side >shot down its own aircraft at least once. > > Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology > henry@zoo.toronto.edu uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry I looked up a book I have on WWII submarine action, and came up with a couple of "Own Goal" instances, and some other incidents that are related but not quite own goals: - The Seawolf was sunk by the destroyer Rowell. - The Guardfish returned by favor in sinking the destroyer Extractor (thinking it was an Japanese I-boat!). - The Nautilus and Spot were fired on by US destroyers, but not sunk. - The Gato was attacked by a US blimp, despite the presence of a destroyer escort. - The Lapon fired two torpedos at the Raton, but missed. - The Tang and Tullibee were sunk by torpedos that ran circular. - Flounder and Hoe had an underwater collision while patrolling adjacent areas. One had significant damage, but returned home. There were also several instances where a target was identified as friendly as an attack was being prepared. -------------------------------- Eugene Styer -- 957 POT, Univ. of Ky, Lexington, KY 40506 -- styer@ms.uky.edu "The optimst expects these [problems] to be as good as the rest of the text, and the pessimist fears this is true" -- A Fortran Coloring Book -- Eugene Styer -- 957 POT, Univ. of Ky, Lexington, KY 40506 -- styer@ms.uky.edu "The optimst expects these [problems] to be as good as the rest of the text, and the pessimist fears this is true" -- A Fortran Coloring Book
jeff@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu (JEFF NANIS ) (06/28/90)
From: jeff@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu (JEFF NANIS ) I just heard an interesting anecdote about friendly fire from an authoritative, non-attributable source. Supposedly, 25% of the Israeli tank losses in the '82 Lebanon war were 'own goals'. (If anyone has access to the records or a good history of the Bekaa Valley ground battles and can confirm or refute these numbers, I would appreciate it.) The best part of the story was that a significant fraction of that 25% was due to fixed wing close air support sorties. (The Israelis were flying F-16s.) I just thought I'd toss in that contentious tidbit to refuel the flames of the CAS argument. -- -- Jeff Nanis "If I told you, I'd have to kill you." Not an official opinion which might get me put in jail.
bxr307@csc.anu.oz (06/30/90)
From: bxr307@csc.anu.oz
I know of three interesting stories about attempted own goals with
regards to the Vietnam war. The first two refer to when American forces
accidently "bumped" into Australian army patrols. The first was an SAS 5 man
patrol. Once the contact had begun the Australians reported that they had
encountered what was likely to be an Enemy patrol of approximately platoon
strength (it was later to be discovered to be a Battalion actually) and that
they had initially the upper hand. The Americans apparently reported they had
run up against at least a NVA regiment! The situation was saved when the
American commander was informed he was fighting his own allies by the
Australian Task Force HQ which suspected something was amiss when they
overheard on one of the nets the Americans. The SAS were safely extracted with
no casualties while the Americans lost several men wounded, luckily none
killed. The Americans were discovered to have been at fault for overstepping
their area of operations while the SAS were in the area. This has just been
related in a new book published here about the SAS which was written from
official records, called "Phantoms of the Jungle".
The second concerned a similar situation and was told to me personally
by the patrol commander concerned (late on night in the mess;-).
He was tasked with taking a fighting patrol of a section plus (15 men) out
of a local company harbour one night which had been set up near the border of
the province in which the Oz Army operated in (Phuac Tuy). He said that he was
expecting trouble and so took a heavier armament than normal of three M60
GPMG's instead of the one normally allocated to each section. As they were
moving into a likely ambush position they suddenly encountered a unit of
Americans which had stumbled into the area. After an initial exchange of shots
all hell broke loose. The Australians knew they had encountered Americans
because they could hear the Americans' voices. The Americans let loose with
all and sundry at their disposal at the Australians, including calling
artillery and airsupport. All seemed lost, the Americans where not listening
to the messages being shouted at them. The Australians couldn't get in
contact with their own HQ and have them inform the American HQ what was
happening. What saved the situation was the fact that the Forward
Air-Controller who just happened to be changing frequencies at that time to
call in a different unit, suddenly overheard the Australians attempting to call
their HQ. He then called off the Americans. The reason he later gave to this
friend of mine as to why he had called off the Americans was that he knew it
couldn't be VC because of the volume, quantity and originality of the swearing
that was going on over the radio!
The final case I know of, as an own goal for the Australians during the
Vietnam war was when one of our DDG's (whos name unfortunatly escapes me at
this moment :-( ) was hit by a Shrike Anti-radiation missile while on patrol
off the Vietnamese coast. We lost several men dead, and quite a few
wounded. Apparently after the ship berthed in Subic Bay for initial repairs
the ships compliment had to be confined to ship, to prevent them going on a
rampage against the US Navy as they were the one who had fired the missile.
Brian.
p.s. I just heard on the radio that someone in Alaska in the USAF just
attempted to shoot down one of his own aircraft by mistake with a live missile.
Now that is an own goal!nagle@uunet.UU.NET (John Nagle) (06/30/90)
From: apple!well.sf.ca.us!well!nagle@uunet.UU.NET (John Nagle)
In "About Face", Col. Hackworth remarks that the .45 ACP pistol has
caused more friendly than enemy casualties.
Followup-To: rec.guns
John Naglesxdjt@acad3.fai.alaska.edu (TABOR DEAN J) (07/02/90)
From: sxdjt@acad3.fai.alaska.edu (TABOR DEAN J) In article <1990Jun30.054114.5122@cbnews.att.com>, bxr307@csc.anu.oz writes... >p.s. I just heard on the radio that someone in Alaska in the USAF just >attempted to shoot down one of his own aircraft by mistake with a live missile. >Now that is an own goal! It was true. Two F-15s out of Elmendorf were out "playing" after an intercept mission (another Bear more than likely), and *bang*... the pilot of the downed aircraft ejected OK, and was rescued within a few hours of the incident. My sympathies really go out for the shooter... hell of a way to end your career/life. *-------(-:-S-t-a-n-d-a-r-d---D-i-s-c-l-a-i-m-e-r---A-p-p-l-i-e-s-:-)-------* |Dean J. Tabor | University of Alaska Computer Network - Operations | |SXDJT@ALASKA.bitnet | Fairbanks, Alaska USA (no, I don't live in an igloo)| |=+=+=+=+=+=-It's not how fast you go, it's how well you go fast-=+=+=+=+=+=| *---------------------------------------------------------------------------*