yla@IDA.LiU.SE (Yngve Larsson) (06/29/90)
From: Yngve Larsson <yla@IDA.LiU.SE> >From: Wes Morgan <morgan@ms.uky.edu> > >smb@ulysses.att.com (Steven Bellovin) writes: >> >>I saw a sketchy news item which mentioned that after the reunification, >>Germany would have access to the East German fleet of MiG-29s. > > >Hmmmmm......I can't see the USSR just calmly handing over a fleet of >MiG-29s........for that matter, are these planes the property of East >Germany, or are they "on loan" from the USSR? I'm sure that the USSR >has some sort of "resale restriction" on its hardware, much like the >US has on its hotter pieces.... Not so: I believe the reason for a unified Germany to fly MiG-29s is that the East German Air Force ordered them back when things were as they used to be :-) Now, the USSR insists on delivering them AND GETTING PAID for them. I think the Germans tried to cancel the order, but to no avail. -- Yngve Larsson UUCP: ...mcvax!enea!liuida!yla Dept of CIS Internet: yla@ida.liu.se Linkoping University, Sweden Phone: +46-13-281949
tobin%hercules@acsu.buffalo.edu (Mike Tobin) (06/30/90)
From: planck!tobin%hercules@acsu.buffalo.edu (Mike Tobin) > >Not so: I believe the reason for a unified Germany to fly MiG-29s is >that the East German Air Force ordered them back when things were as they >used to be :-) Now, the USSR insists on delivering them AND GETTING PAID >for them. I think the Germans tried to cancel the order, but to no avail. > More than that, the Soviets are offering up the MiG-29 to foreign sales (or so I think I remember fro Av Leak). MiGs and Su's are the one thing the Soviets make that can bring in signifigant hard currency. That's why the emphasis on GETTING PAID - it's really become the reason for the shipment. Makes for an interesting concept for USAF and USN Aggressor squadrons!
amichiel@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Allen J Michielsen) (06/30/90)
From: amichiel@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Allen J Michielsen) In article <1990Jun29.025812.7577@cbnews.att.com> yla@IDA.LiU.SE (Yngve Larsso >Not so: I believe the reason for a unified Germany to fly MiG-29s is >that the East German Air Force ordered them back when things were as they >used to be :-) Now, the USSR insists on delivering them AND GETTING PAID >for them. I think the Germans tried to cancel the order, but to no avail. If this is true. maybe we should lobby congress to buy them and cancel a eq. $ number of f16's. They should compare pricewise favorably. I suspect that will either convice the soviets to cancel the order & or give us some real movie scenes & school materials. al -- Al. Michielsen, Mechanical & Aerospace Engineering, Syracuse University InterNet: amichiel@rodan.acs.syr.edu amichiel@sunrise.acs.syr.edu amichiel@earth.mae.syr.edu amichiel@moon.mae.syr.edu Bitnet: AMICHIEL@SUNRISE
werner@cs.utexas.edu (Werner Uhrig) (07/02/90)
From: werner@cs.utexas.edu (Werner Uhrig) >>Not so: I believe the reason for a unified Germany to fly MiG-29s is... >If this is true. maybe we should lobby congress to buy them and ... why not simply invite the Luftwaffe "over" and have some REAL competition? lots cheaper that way, plus the results should be a lot more realistic ... ;-)
pspod@kira.lerc.nasa.gov (Steve Podleski) (07/05/90)
From: pspod@kira.lerc.nasa.gov (Steve Podleski) In article <1990Jun26.024954.15340@cbnews.att.com> morgan@ms.uky.edu (Wes Morgan) writes: : :smb@ulysses.att.com (Steven Bellovin) writes: :MiG-29s........for that matter, are these planes the property of East :Germany, or are they "on loan" from the USSR? I'm sure that the USSR :has some sort of "resale restriction" on its hardware, much like the :US has on its hotter pieces.... : :That would be interesting, though; I'm sure that the folks in OPFOR :would just *love* to dump those mockups and fly the real thing in :simulations. 8) I'm pretty sure that the Russians wouldn't mind getting some real cash for their MiG 29s. I think the only sensitive technology on the MiG is the avionics which is mostly obsolete by Western standards and the Germans will probably use their own avionics.
ewright@uunet.UU.NET (Edward V. Wright) (07/12/90)
From: convex!ewright@uunet.UU.NET (Edward V. Wright) planck!tobin%hercules@acsu.buffalo.edu (Mike Tobin) writes: >More than that, the Soviets are offering up the MiG-29 to foreign sales >(or so I think I remember fro Av Leak). MiGs and Su's are the one >thing the Soviets make that can bring in signifigant hard currency. >That's why the emphasis on GETTING PAID - it's really become the reason >for the shipment. >Makes for an interesting concept for USAF and USN Aggressor squadrons! Actually, the Pentagon's Office of Operational Test and Evaluation was buying MiGs from the Eastern bloc (Poland, I think) until Congress got wind of it. At that point, the Pentagon got its hands slapped and was told not to do it again.
ewright@uunet.UU.NET (Edward V. Wright) (07/12/90)
From: convex!ewright@uunet.UU.NET (Edward V. Wright) From: Yngve Larsson <yla@IDA.LiU.SE> > >From: Wes Morgan <morgan@ms.uky.edu> > >smb@ulysses.att.com (Steven Bellovin) writes: >> >>I saw a sketchy news item which mentioned that after the reunification, >>Germany would have access to the East German fleet of MiG-29s. > > >Hmmmmm......I can't see the USSR just calmly handing over a fleet of >MiG-29s........for that matter, are these planes the property of East >Germany, or are they "on loan" from the USSR? I'm sure that the USSR >has some sort of "resale restriction" on its hardware, much like the >US has on its hotter pieces.... Why shouldn't the Soviets want the reunified Germany equipped with MiG-29s? Think about it. They're no better than the Western state of the art (i.e., not as good as the ATF) and the Soviets know everything there is to know about these planes and thus have a tremendous edge in designing defenses against them. Besides, the Soviets need the hard currency.