[sci.military] USAF F- Planes

G_AHRENDT@VAXA.CC.UWA.OZ.AU (Gunter Ahrendt) (07/28/90)

From: G_AHRENDT@VAXA.CC.UWA.OZ.AU (Gunter Ahrendt)

Here is what i've been able to assemble to try and complete the USAF F- series 
listing.

MD FH-1 Phantom
MD F-2H Banshee
MD F-3H Demon
MD F-4S Phantom
Northrop F-5G Tiger 2
Grumman F-6F Hellcat
Chance Vought F7U Cutlass
Vought F-8F Bearcat
Grumman F-9F Panther
?
Northrop F-11 Super Tiger
Lockheed F-12
Boeing F-13A Superfortress
Grumman F-14D Tomcat
MD F-15 Eagle
General Dynamics F-16 Falcon
Northrop YF-17 Cobra
MD F-18 Hornet
Lockheed F-19A Aurora
Northrop F-20 Tigershark
?
Lockheed YF-22
Northrop YF-23
?
.
.
.
F-27
F-80 Shooting Star
Republic F-84D-1 Thunderjet
McDonnell XF-85 Goblin
North American F-86D Sabre
F-89D
Convair XF-92A
North American F-100D Super Sabre
F-101 Voodoo
Convair F-102 Delta Dagger
F-103
Lockheed F-104G Starfighter
Republic F-105 Thunderchief
F-106
F-107
F-108
Garrett F-109
MD F-110 Phantom
General Dynamics F-111C
Lockheed F-117A Nighthawk

lang@hpfcso.fc.hp.com (John J. Lang) (07/31/90)

From: John J. Lang <lang@hpfcso.fc.hp.com>
> Here is what i've been able to assemble to try and complete the USAF F- series 
> listing.

> Grumman F-6F Hellcat
> Vought F-8F Bearcat
> Grumman F-9F Panther
> Grumman F-14D Tomcat
> MD F-18 Hornet

I don't know if this concerns you, but the Hellcat, Bearcat, etc.  are
Navy Planes.  If you want to list all US planes (Air Force or otherwise)
you should also include the F-4U Wildcat.

You should also realize that the number system for the Navy and Air
Force (and Army Air Corps) were originally different.  The
Air Force numbered it's planes consecutively, the Navy numbered them
consecutively by the contractor.  Thus the F-6F was the 6th plane built
by Grumman for the Navy.  I think the F-4 was the first plane that
had a common designation from both the Air Force and Navy.

If you really wish to have a list of the USAF planes in series you
should start with the P planes (P38, P39, ...).  The F86 Saber was first
designated the P86, and then the Air Force changed from P designation to F
(as the Navy had always done).

John Lang
lang@hpfccrl.fc.hp.com

Sources: Most if this is from memory.  The format for the WWII Navy
	 number scheme was told to my by my father, who was a Navy
	 pilot.  The 'name' change for the Saber I heard on the
	 Wings series, and could have been P84 to F84.

thornley@uunet.UU.NET (David H. Thornley) (08/01/90)

From: plains!umn-cs!LOCAL!thornley@uunet.UU.NET (David H. Thornley)
In article <1990Jul31.023112.20171@cbnews.att.com> lang@hpfcso.fc.hp.com (John J. Lang) writes:
>
>
>From: John J. Lang <lang@hpfcso.fc.hp.com>
>> Here is what i've been able to assemble to try and complete the USAF F- series 
>> listing.
>
>> Grumman F-6F Hellcat
>> Vought F-8F Bearcat
>> Grumman F-9F Panther
>> Grumman F-14D Tomcat
>> MD F-18 Hornet
>
>I don't know if this concerns you, but the Hellcat, Bearcat, etc.  are
>Navy Planes.  If you want to list all US planes (Air Force or otherwise)
>you should also include the F-4U Wildcat.

The F-14 and F-18 designations above are correct.  The other designations
are misstated from the original, and do not in fact belong in the F-
series.

The old Navy format was, basically, (type)(number)(manufacturer) - (number),
where the first number is the general model number and the second is the
modification number.  The fighter designation was F, allowing confusion 
with later times.  Therefore, the F6F (*no* hyphen there), F8F, and F9F
were, respectively, the sixth, eighth, and ninth basic fighter designs
that Grumman (second F) supplied to the Navy.  If the number between the
letters was 1 it was omitted; therefore, the FF was the first fighter
design Grumman did for the navy.  The Wildcat was in fact the F4F, and 
the F4U was the Corsair.

One quirk with this system was that the same plane might have more than
one designation.  For example, the Avenger torpedo bomber by Grumman was
the TBF, except when it was made by some other company (I can't remember
the name - General Motors????)  when it was the TBM.  The Wildcat was the
F4F when made by Grumman, and when production went elsewhere (same place
as the Avenger, I think) it became (I think, doing this from memory) the
FM.  In contrast, a Mustang was a P-51 regardless of whether North American
made it or not.  I don't think we lost anything in the change to the
modern system.

[mod.note: Correct.  The TBM and FM were both produced by GM. - Bill ]


David H. Thornley

geoffm@EBay.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller) (08/05/90)

From: geoffm@EBay.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller)


In article <1990Jul31.023112.20171@cbnews.att.com> lang@hpfcso.fc.hp.com (John J. Lang) writes:

>I don't know if this concerns you, but the Hellcat, Bearcat, etc.  are
>Navy Planes.  If you want to list all US planes (Air Force or otherwise)
>you should also include the F-4U Wildcat.

The F4U (no hyphen) was the Chance Vought Corsair; the Grumman Wildcat's
designation was F4F.  ("U" for Chance Vought, "F" for Grumman under the old
Navy system.)


Geoff


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Geoff Miller                    + + + + + + + +        Sun Microsystems
geoffm@purplehaze.sun.com       + + + + + + + +       Milpitas, California
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (Steve Hix) (08/07/90)

From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (Steve Hix)

> From: John J. Lang <lang@hpfcso.fc.hp.com>
> > Here is what i've been able to assemble to try and complete the USAF F- series 
> > listing.
> 
> > Grumman F-6F Hellcat
> > Vought F-8F Bearcat
> > Grumman F-9F Panther
> > Grumman F-14D Tomcat
> > MD F-18 Hornet
> 
> I don't know if this concerns you, but the Hellcat, Bearcat, etc.  are
> Navy Planes.  If you want to list all US planes (Air Force or otherwise)
> you should also include the F-4U Wildcat.

Which one?  The Grumman F4F Wildcat or Chance-Vought F4U Corsair?
(To make things even more confusing, the Navy had different numbers for
identical aircraft made by different subcontractors.  Like F4F Wildcat
from Grumman and FM2 for the same aircraft made by General Motors.  Hmmm.
It's even worse, since they didn't follow the <letter><number><letter>
convention all the time.)

We'll ignore the Wilcats flown by the Royal Navy (Martlets?), since they
just muddy up the water.


------------
  The only drawback with morning is that it comes 
    at such an inconvenient time of day.
------------

pstinson@pbs.org (08/10/90)

From: pstinson@pbs.org

In article <1990Aug7.040901.6955@cbnews.att.com>, fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (Steve Hix) writes:
> From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (Steve Hix)
>  
> Which one?  The Grumman F4F Wildcat or Chance-Vought F4U Corsair?
> (To make things even more confusing, the Navy had different numbers for
> identical aircraft made by different subcontractors.  Like F4F Wildcat
> from Grumman and FM2 for the same aircraft made by General Motors.  Hmmm.
> It's even worse, since they didn't follow the <letter><number><letter>
> convention all the time.)
> 
In the navy aircraft designation system before 1962, Letters were used for type
of aircraft and for manufacturer code.  The number between the letters referred
to how many of that type of aircraft had been built for the Navy by that
manufacturer.  In the example above the first F stood for Fighter.  The second
F was the BuAer code letter for Grumman, U was for Vought-Sikorsky (later
Chance-Vought).  The Wildcat was the fourth fighter built by Grumman and the
Corsair just happened to be the fourth built by that company.  The General
Motors version of the Wildcat was the first (1 was omitted) fighter project for
the Navy from that Company.  The final number, as in FM-2 referred to model
 variations. There was an FM-1 for example which was improved to become FM-2.

To further illustrate, the OS2U Kingfisher meant the second Observation/Scout
aircraft built by Vought-Sikorsky.  Various models included the OS2U-1 ; -2 and
-3.  Unless you know the system well, it can indeed be confusing, particularly
since the manufacturer assigned code letters sometimes changed over time.