wb9omc@ea.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) (07/27/90)
From: wb9omc@ea.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) >From: adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk (Adrian Hurt) >Also, can someone explain to me the way the USAF numbers its aircraft? I >can account for most of the numbers 1 to 20, thus: Well, the Air Force can't even explain it! :-) >1: McDonnell FH-1 Phantom >2: McDonnell F2H Banshee >3: McDonnell F3H Demon >4: Confusion :-) North American FJ-4 Fury; Douglas F4D Skyray; McDonnell- >Douglas F4H Phantom II. Not really confusing at all, IFF you want to talk about USAF aircraft. the FJ-4 Fury and F4D Skyray were carrier borne US Navy aircraft. :-) If you care to go back further, there was also the F4F Wildcat of WWII(Grumman) ....and you can go back perhaps a bit further on the 2 and 3 designations into the '20s and '30s. How could we forget the F4U Corsair (I hope that's close) of WWII fame, here to confuse the "4" fighters even more? :-) And there always the A4 Skyhawk..... >5: Northrop F5 Freedom Fighter Reference also to the T38 Talon, trainer version... >6: ? The F6F Hellcat(Grumman), worthy successor to the F4F Wildcat, also of WWII vintage. >7: Chance Vought F7U Cutlass Also F7F Tigercat(Grumman), less than worthy..... :-) More recently, the A7 Corsair II, still on line since the 60's and might get a new lease on life as the A7F. >8: Chance Vought F8U Crusader And the last of the prop driver 'cats, the F8F Bearcat (Grumman). Marvelous airplane....if you ever go to a Warbirds show see if Howard Pardue is flying his F8F.....beautiful! >9: Grumman F9F Panther, Cougar One with a straight wing, one with a swept wing. >10: ? OHHHH, how soon we forget. A10 Thunderbolt II, Republic/Fairchild and whoever else was involved. Our current tank-buster with the GAU8a 30mm cannon that can saw a Soviet MBT into chunks. Fine aircraft that the USAF wants to deep-six in favor of some kluged up version of the F16 (oops, sorry about the politics there Bill). >11: ? F11 Tiger. I don't recall who made it. I think this was the first carrier-borne supersonic fighter. The Blue Angels once flew them. >12: Lockheed F-12; never got past YF-12 stage; became SR-71 Blackbird Well, we could debate about that. The YF12 was really SUPPOSED to be a fighter-interceptor while the SR71 proper was a recon bird from the word go. The fact that they were based upon the same airframe.....well...... :-) >13: ? Maybe the companies were superstitious; maybe someone felt no pilot >would want to fly an F-13. >14: Grumman F-14 Tomcat >15: McDonnell-Douglas F-15 Eagle >16: General Dynamics F-16 Falcon >17: Northrop F-17; competitor to F-16 which failed. Later resurrected as: >18: McDonnell-Douglas F-18 Hornet Hmmmm.....I don't think McD/D would agree with that.... :-) >19: Lockheed F-19, the hypothetical Stealth Fighter. The real one is F-117 >for some reason. Or is there an F-19 which no-one has seen yet? Rumour has it that "117" was the call sign used by a USAF group flying "appropriated" MiG's.....evidently the Stealth jockeys started using it and it stuck. Stranger things have happened. >20: Northrop's private follow-up to the F-5, which no-one would buy. Known as the Tigershark. Prototypes crashed, don't know if there are more than one or two left. >21: ? >22: The hypothetical ATF. Well, there are two. The Lockheed/Boeing/General Dynamics (I think that's the lineup) is the YF22. The Northrop version is the YF23. They are actually competing for the ATF contract. ======================================================================== P26: ???official name I don't recall, known as the Pea-Shooter. This was an early monoplane fighter. P35: name????, Seversky. Predecessor to P47. P36: Hawk, Curtiss. Not too well known but some were sold to the French prior to WWII and got toasted, mostly on the ground by superior Luftwaffe aircraft early on. P38: Lightning, Lockheed. Maybe also thank you Kelly Johnson?????? Twin boom "boomer" that the Germans called the "fork tailed devil". HEAVILY armed; in the pacific was the aircraft that shot down Adm. Yamamoto's plane. P39: Airacobra, Bell Aircraft. Sold lots to the Soviet Union during WWII. Unique design, never horridly impressive. P40: Warhawk, Kittyhawk, Tomahawk; Curtiss, methinks. Lots of these built in several different flavors. Generally inferior to its opponents but given good pilots and appropriate tactics, the Flying Tigers held their own against Japanese Zeros until better aircraft could be delivered. Methinks the only American fighters to see action over Pearl Harbor (or nearby...) were of this type. P43: Lancer, Republic. I think saw some limited action in the Pacific during early WWII. Pretty well outclassed. P47: Thunderbolt, Republic (formerly Seversky) Known to some as "the jug" due to it's shape. A heavy, powerful bird that excelled in the ground attack role in late WWII. P/F51: Mustang, North American Aviation. What needs to be said about this bird, other than pure excellence? XP58: Chain Lightning, Lockheed (don't know if that name was official) An attempt to improve the P38 that proved the adage, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" P61: Black Widow, Northrop. P63: Kingcobra, Bell Aircraft. See P39. P/F80: Shooting Star, Lockheed. Thank you Kelly Johnson. More people have probably seen a T33, the two seat trainer based upon the F80 and affectionately known as the T-bird. Many still flying; including one just seen flying at the Dayton Airshow. F82: Twin Mustang, North American. An exception to the rule that says kluging doesn't work. The F82 was two P51's joined at the wing and tail; made a dandy ground support aircraft. F84: Thunderjet/Thunderstreak/Thunderflash, Republic Aviation. First jet to carry a Tactical Nuke, If memory serves correctly. XF85: Goblin, can't recall the builder. Was a parasite designed to be deployed from a B36 Peacemaker on a trapeze assembly. Ugly, but it did fly. Methinks can be seen in the Air Force Museum at Wright Patterson AFB. F86: Sabre, North American. The counter to the MiG15 over Korea; another bit of excellence from North American. F89: Scorpion, don't remember who made this one. XF92: Whoo, boy....can't remember the name of this one but it was sort of the original Convair Delta-wing fighter vehicle. F94: Starfire, Lockheed, I think.... I think this is an overgrowth of the F80/T33..... F100: Super Sabre, North American. Nasty airplane at first but once the bugs were worked out, our first fighter to go supersonic in level flight became a very good aircraft. F101: Voodoo, McDonell/Douglas, I think. This was based, I think, upon the Xf-99(88???)....but don't quote me on that. A very LARGE fighter whose recon version, the RF101 probably made more of a splash - made low level dangerous passes over Cuba during the missile crisis. F102: Delta Dagger? (I get this and the F106 backwards sometimes) and I think Convair made this one. Delta wing. F104: Starfighter, Lockheed. Thank You again, Kelly Johnson. Known as the "missile with the man in it" While never achieving great acceptance with the USAF, foreign countries gobbled them up by the s***loads. I could be wrong, but I think this was produced until the 1980's after having been built since the early 60's. Held several speed and altitude records until the Blackbirds came around and blew everybody away..... F105: Thunderchief, Republic. BIG bird, used more commonly in Vietnam for precision bomb strikes, although I have seen film of big groups of them (15+) dropping iron in a fairly indiscriminate pattern. F106: Delta Dart? Again, I think Convair/General Dynamics. Marvelous upgrade of the F102. Used as a strategic interceptor and could fire nasty missiles with nuke head like the Genie, which could seriously nuke whole GROUPS of enemy bombers. Of course, it probably wouldn't have done the firing aircraft much good either..... :-) F107: I keep thinking that this was a Northrop creation called a Cobra. Never sold to anybody, that I know of. Wierdest looking thing..... F108: Rapier, North American. Never built or sold. Was to be a Mach 3+ escort for the XB70 bomber. Scheduled to have the Hughes AN/ASG18 air-air missile radar that ended up going into the YF12a, and in improved fashion, into the F15 Eagle. F111: Now that's funny...I can't remember the name of this thing to save my life OR who built it. Now known as the FB111 and used as a "fighter/bomber" (ask the Libyans....). There is an EF111 Raven Electronics Jammer plane. Original swing-wing for the US. F117: Name more or less not set. Nighthawk is the leading contender. Stealth fighter. Very secret until recently. ======================================================================= Please keep in mind that I am sitting at work doing this from memory. I really don't have good access form home, and I don't feel like dragging all the reference works in to my rather crowded office. :-) Duane (after this one, my brain hurts.....)
shafer@skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) (07/31/90)
From: Mary Shafer <shafer@skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov> Duane P Mantick (wb9omc@ea.ecn.purdue.edu) writes, in response to Adrian Hurt: >>17: Northrop F-17; competitor to F-16 which failed. Later resurrected as: >>18: McDonnell-Douglas F-18 Hornet > Hmmmm.....I don't think McD/D would agree with that.... :-) I don't know why not. McAir is quite honest about having stolen the Northrop design. :-) The Northrop parentage of the F-18 is well-known and acknowledged by all parties. The main reason behind the teaming with McDonnell was Northrop's inexperience with the ship-board environment. In fact, Northrop reserved the right to build the purely-attack A-18 were it ever preferred by a customer. The A-18 would not be carrier-capable. -- Mary Shafer shafer@skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov ames!skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov!shafer NASA Ames Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA Of course I don't speak for NASA "A MiG at your six is better than no MiG at all"--Unknown US fighter pilot
welty@lewis.crd.ge.com (richard welty) (07/31/90)
From: welty@lewis.crd.ge.com (richard welty)
In article <1990Jul27.015630.22235@cbnews.att.com>, Duane P Mantick writes:
*>10: ?
* OHHHH, how soon we forget. A10 Thunderbolt II, Republic/Fairchild
* and whoever else was involved. Our current tank-buster with
* the GAU8a 30mm cannon that can saw a Soviet MBT into chunks.
ummm, but Adrian was asking about F-series aircraft. there
was probably an F-10, but i don't recall what it would have been.
undistinguished, though, i'll bet.
*>11: ?
* F11 Tiger. I don't recall who made it.
grumman bout this one.
*>19: Lockheed F-19, the hypothetical Stealth Fighter. The real one is F-117
*>for some reason. Or is there an F-19 which no-one has seen yet?
there are any number of speculations about the reasons for this; perhaps
best not to waste time since to those of us without appropriate clearance,
it's merely hot air. for those of us who have appropriate clearance, well,
they're not allowed to post the answer.
*P39: Airacobra, Bell Aircraft. Sold lots to the Soviet Union during
* WWII. Unique design, never horridly impressive.
actually, some pilots really liked it. the export versions had serious
problems, though. lack of a turbocharger leading to terrible high-altitude
performance, as i recall. some of these export versions (the P400s)
ended up used by US pilots early in the pacific war, which helped lead to
the undeserved bad rep.
*XF85: Goblin, can't recall the builder. Was a parasite designed to
* be deployed from a B36 Peacemaker on a trapeze assembly.
* Ugly, but it did fly. Methinks can be seen in the Air Force
* Museum at Wright Patterson AFB.
it barely flew. this project was justifiably scrapped early on.
a real pilot killer, this one.
*F102: Delta Dagger? (I get this and the F106 backwards sometimes) and
* I think Convair made this one. Delta wing.
convair did make this one. the `coke bottle' fuselage concept was
introduced because the prototype YF102A couldn't break mach 1.
you missed F103; this was assigned to a Republic interceptor project
that never made it past mockup. it was ridiculed by some, but there
are a few who say that the designer was ahead of his time, trying to
build something that no one was yet ready for.
*F105: Thunderchief, Republic. BIG bird, used more commonly in Vietnam
* for precision bomb strikes, although I have seen film of
* big groups of them (15+) dropping iron in a fairly
* indiscriminate pattern.
there were two fighter wings flying out of Thailand; the 355th was
mostly doing low level roll-in-and dive tactics, and the 388th was
mostly doing straight-and-level bombing runs from mid-to-high
altitude. Jack Broughton claims that the 355th was much more
effective, but he was vice commander of the 355th, and therefore
somewhat biased.
remember that the F105, as built, had an internal bomb bay intended
to take a tac nuke. its role evolved as a result the political
pressures of the time.
*F106: Delta Dart? Again, I think Convair/General Dynamics.
yes.
* Marvelous
* upgrade of the F102. Used as a strategic interceptor and
* could fire nasty missiles with nuke head like the Genie,
* which could seriously nuke whole GROUPS of enemy bombers.
ummm, the genie was a serious abortion. Broughton slams it pretty
hard in _Going Downtown_; it was not a missile but an unguided
rocket, whose engines fired when the tether back to the interceptor
yanked the firing pin out. it flew whichever way it was pointed
when the pin came out, and came close to hitting the launching aircraft
on more than one occasion. not a pretty picture. when the Genies
reached their `expiration date', they were replaced with much
more conventional munitions, with good reason.
*F107: I keep thinking that this was a Northrop creation called a
* Cobra. Never sold to anybody, that I know of. Wierdest
* looking thing.....
north american. picture a F 100 with a pointed nose, and an
intake above and behind the pilot. 3 built. was placed in
a rather bizarre flyoff against the contemporary F105 for
reasons having to do, apparently, with internal DOD/USAF politics
rather than practical, technical matters.
*F111: Now that's funny...I can't remember the name of this thing to save
* my life OR who built it.
Convair/General Dynamics, the Aardvark
* Now known as the FB111 and used
* as a "fighter/bomber" (ask the Libyans....).
actually, the FB111 was a contemporary designation for the Bomber
version.
richard
--
richard welty 518-387-6346, GE R&D, K1-5C39, Niskayuna, New York
welty@lewis.crd.ge.com ...!crdgw1!lewis.crd.ge.com!welty
``Don't close your eyes for the crash; you'll miss the best part''
-- Bruce MacInnes, Skip Barber Driving School instructoreachus@linus.mitre.org (Robert I. Eachus) (07/31/90)
From: eachus@linus.mitre.org (Robert I. Eachus)
In article <1990Jul27.015630.22235@cbnews.att.com> wb9omc@ea.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) writes:
F111: Now that's funny...I can't remember the name of this thing to save
my life OR who built it.
That's easy. TFX did have a name assigned, but the only one that
stuck to the F111A was McNamara's Folly. Built by General Dynamics in
LBJ's home state of Texas. GD is a defense contractor much more
famous for its ships and submarines...
--
Robert I. Eachus
with STANDARD_DISCLAIMER;
use STANDARD_DISCLAIMER;
function MESSAGE (TEXT: in CLEVER_IDEAS) return BETTER_IDEAS is...sysmgr@KING.ENG.UMD.EDU (Doug Mohney) (08/01/90)
From: sysmgr@KING.ENG.UMD.EDU (Doug Mohney) In article <1990Jul31.023014.19927@cbnews.att.com>, shafer@skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) writes: > >In fact, Northrop reserved the right to build the purely-attack A-18 >were it ever preferred by a customer. The A-18 would not be >carrier-capable. I don't think Northrop will ever pick up that option; South Korea and Kuwait are both going to get the F/A-18s, as I seem to recall, and McD is the only one in the biz....
shafer@skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) (08/01/90)
From: Mary Shafer <shafer@skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov>
The F-111 doesn't have an official name. It's commonly called the
Aardvark, from the shape of its forebody. Other names included
McNamara's Folly and the Switchblade Edsel.
The EF-111A's official name is the Raven.
--
Mary Shafer shafer@skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov ames!skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov!shafer
NASA Ames Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
Of course I don't speak for NASA
"A MiG at your six is better than no MiG at all"--Unknown US fighter pilotfiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (Steve Hix) (08/07/90)
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (Steve Hix) > From: welty@lewis.crd.ge.com (richard welty) > In article <1990Jul27.015630.22235@cbnews.att.com>, Duane P Mantick writes: > > *F102: Delta Dagger? (I get this and the F106 backwards sometimes) and > * I think Convair made this one. Delta wing. > > convair did make this one. the `coke bottle' fuselage concept was > introduced because the prototype YF102A couldn't break mach 1. The YF-102A was a modified form of the original XF-102/YF-102. While the original couldn't break Mach 1 in level flight, the -102A, with the area rule applied went supersonic in a slight climb. Whitcomb was right. (He was the one who came up with the area rule concept. It isn't his only contribution to aerodynamics, either.) ------------ The only drawback with morning is that it comes at such an inconvenient time of day. ------------
fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (Steve Hix) (08/07/90)
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (Steve Hix) > From: wb9omc@ea.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) > >From: adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk (Adrian Hurt) > >10: ? > OHHHH, how soon we forget. A10 Thunderbolt II, Republic/Fairchild Not a fighter... > >11: ? > F11 Tiger. I don't recall who made it. I think this was the > first carrier-borne supersonic fighter. The Blue Angels Grumman. F11F1 Super Tiger incorporated area rule (coke bottle shape) and performed somewhat better. > ======================================================================== > P26: ???official name I don't recall, known as the Pea-Shooter. This > was an early monoplane fighter. Boeing. First USAAF monoplane fighter. > P43: Lancer, Republic. I think saw some limited action in the Pacific > during early WWII. Pretty well outclassed. (Republic grew from de Seversky's old firm.) P-43 didn't see service with USAAF, most exported for foreign service. For a while the French, Chinese, etc., would buy anything with wings and guns. > F82: Twin Mustang, North American. An exception to the rule that > says kluging doesn't work. The F82 was two P51's joined > at the wing and tail; made a dandy ground support aircraft. Nope. (I got toasted on this one a long time ago.) It *looks* like two Mustangs, but the wing size/shape is different, and the fuselage(s) are somewhat different, longer, mostly. Using Merlins (or Allisons), and the same sort of belly scoop makes it very similar, though. > XF85: Goblin, can't recall the builder. Was a parasite designed to > be deployed from a B36 Peacemaker on a trapeze assembly. McDonnell. Bashed canopy into trapeze when trying mid-air hookup, airplane crashlanded on dry lake. > F89: Scorpion, don't remember who made this one. Northrop. First all-weather fighter-interceptor jet. No guns, lots of unguided rockets. Might have worked if you got close enough. > XF92: Whoo, boy....can't remember the name of this one but it was > sort of the original Convair Delta-wing fighter vehicle. Launched from water off hydrofoils. Exploded during test flight, data led to design of F-102. >F101: Voodoo, McDonell/Douglas, I think. This was based, I think, > upon the Xf-99(88???)....but don't quote me on that. Pre-Douglas merge. Based on XF-88 earlier. > F107: I keep thinking that this was a Northrop creation called a > Cobra. Never sold to anybody, that I know of. Wierdest > looking thing..... North American. Updated F-100. No service. ------------ The only drawback with morning is that it comes at such an inconvenient time of day. ------------
ted@cs.utexas.edu (Ted Woodward) (08/10/90)
From: ted@cs.utexas.edu (Ted Woodward) In article <1990Aug7.040915.7012@cbnews.att.com> fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (Steve Hix) writes: >> F107: I keep thinking that this was a Northrop creation called a >> Cobra. Never sold to anybody, that I know of. Wierdest >> looking thing..... >North American. Updated F-100. No service. This was a very nice plane. Would have made it (probably) if it didn't have to go through a fly-off with the F-105 ThunderThud :-) (What the pilots called the ThunderChief before they realized what a good plane it was. Shortened to 'Thud' and kept around...) -- Ted Woodward (ted@cs.utexas.edu) Greetings, Royal Ugly Dudes!
leem@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV (Lee Mellinger) (08/10/90)
From: leem@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV (Lee Mellinger) In article <1990Aug7.040849.6885@cbnews.att.com> fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (Steve Hix) writes: :From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (Steve Hix) :While the original couldn't break Mach 1 in level flight, the -102A, with :the area rule applied went supersonic in a slight climb. :Whitcomb was right. (He was the one who came up with the area rule :concept. It isn't his only contribution to aerodynamics, either.) Can you say "winglet", as in the Whitcomb Winglet that is showing up on half of the newly designed aircraft. Lee "Mit Pulver und Blei, die Gedanken sind frei." |Lee F. Mellinger Caltech/Jet Propulsion Laboratory - NASA |4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, CA 91109 818/393-0516 FTS 977-0516 |leem@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV