bxr307@csc.anu.oz (06/28/90)
From: bxr307@csc.anu.oz In article <1990Jun26.024856.15103@cbnews.att.com>, whh@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes: > > > From: whh@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) > > In article <1990Jun22.043318.28231@cbnews.att.com> adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk (Adrian Hurt) writes: >>There was one unusual camouflage experiment I saw on a TV programme (a factual >>one from a scientific series; this one was about camouflage). The camouflage >>system in question was for use on tanks; it involved covering the side of the >>tank in lights. > > This same sort of idea was developed in WW2 for ships. To hide a ship at > night it should be painted *white*. You want as bright a white as you can > get. The way ships were spotted was by silhouette against the sky--that > being lighter than the sea. Unfortunately--it's hell to keep clean. A > compromise was developed in the form of a good off-white color named after > the man that spurred the development--Montbatten Pink. Apparently Lord > Louis Montbatten was revered in the Royal Navy in part for this development > in saving the labor of sailors. That is Mountbatten, not Montbatten (in fact his original family name is Battenberg, however they decided to change it at the start of WWI to prevent charges of German sympathies being made against them, for the name was in fact German.) And while I am at it the title is Loise, Lord Mountbatten, not Lord Loise Mountbatten. The title belongs to the family, not the individual who currently holds it, that is how it is passed on, from father to son. I should also mention that the reason why Mountbatten Pink was adopted as a colour was that research showed that pink is actually the least visible colour in the spectrum. The reason why the colour was called Mountbatten Pink was not because he invented it, but rather because he was the first commander brave enough to actually have ships painted in the colour when he took over SEAC (South East Asia Command) in 1944. Before this the Royal Navy had been using white in the far-East on their ships to reflect the tropical sun (an important consideration before the ready avialability of air-conditioners). While the Royal Navy had known about the properties of pink as a camouflage colour no commander, other than Mountbatten, had been willing to take up and make use of the results from trials that had been conducted earlier in the war due to the unfortunate conitations of the colour with regards to homosexaulty. The use of Mountbatten pink was discontinued soon after the war due more than likely to this fear of the commanders (as well as a need for a more heat reflective colour in far-East waters as well). However the British SAS have used the colour now for about 25 years on their desert patrol Landrover 4WD. They discovered its properties during their campiagn in South Yemen in the early 1960's. Apparently the story goes ;-) that they had the wreck of a Mosquito Fighter-Bomber near one of their bases. The sun had bleached the dope on the wooden plane to a faded pink colour and had rendered it nearly invisible from any but the closest range. The result was that they adopted the colour as standard on their desert vehicles. Obviously the moral of the story is either the big butch SAS are not worried by such conitations or, "the times they are changing!" :-) Brian
mmm@uunet.UU.NET (08/19/90)
From: <ames!ames!claris!portal!cup.portal.com!mmm@uunet.UU.NET> Notice the camoflage worn by our boys in Saudi Arabia? It looks like their clothing was accidently stained by used motor oil, and then had an unfortunate accident with a flock of seagulls. Or maybe it was strapped to the front of a VW bus driving at 80 mph through Wisconsin in the summer. But seriously, why does it have all those little specks on it? Anyone viewing such camoflage with sufficient resolution to see the specks is likely to be able to see the eyes and mouth of the guy wearing it.
hhm@ihlpy.att.com (Herschel H Mayo) (08/21/90)
From: hhm@ihlpy.att.com (Herschel H Mayo)
Those little dots are supposed to represent stones. It really makes
me wonder why the U.S. never bothered to make use of the vast amount
of practical research in desert camouflage by all sides during the
numerous desert wars between 1940 and the present. It seems that a
pinkish tan monocolor was proven to be the best for this environment.
But do we use that? Noooooooo. Also a disaster is the woodland camo
with black patches that stand out a mile away. In the military exercises
I have participated in, I have never had the slightest difficulty in
spotting the black, dark browns and blackish green against the far lighter
foilage of a typical forest.
Larry Mayopatterso@ADS.COM (Tim J. Patterson) (08/22/90)
From: patterso@ADS.COM (Tim J. Patterson) In article <1990Aug18.182628.24480@cbnews.att.com> ames!ames!claris!portal!cup.portal.com!mmm@uunet.UU.NET writes: >Notice the camoflage worn by our boys in Saudi Arabia? It looks like >their clothing was accidently stained by used motor oil, and then had >an unfortunate accident with a flock of seagulls. Or maybe it was strapped >to the front of a VW bus driving at 80 mph through Wisconsin in the summer. I noticed the other night news footage of a group in mottled green camouflage clothing on patrol across a flat sandy area--the "camouflage" made them stick out like a sore thumb.
gse@ida.liu.se (Goran Sedvall) (08/23/90)
From: gse@ida.liu.se (Goran Sedvall) I have noticed that US have a lot of diffrent camo on their uniforms. Actually, when and where are the diffrent camo used and why are they diffrent? I build and paint 120 mm model soldier and recently finnich a airbourne radio operator in woodland cammo and, for an example, I notice several diffrences in the cutting between flat green uniform and woodland. Here in Sweden, we have only one colour (green) on ours uniform. Any comments? " Goran Sedvall Email:GSE@IDA.LIU.SE
deichman@cod.nosc.mil (Shane D. Deichman) (08/23/90)
From: deichman@cod.nosc.mil (Shane D. Deichman) In article <1990Aug18.182628.24480@cbnews.att.com> ames!ames!claris!portal!cup.portal.com!mmm@uunet.UU.NET writes: > >Notice the camoflage worn by our boys in Saudi Arabia? It looks like >their clothing was accidently stained by used motor oil, and then had >an unfortunate accident with a flock of seagulls. Or maybe it was strapped >to the front of a VW bus driving at 80 mph through Wisconsin in the summer. > >But seriously, why does it have all those little specks on it? Anyone >viewing such camoflage with sufficient resolution to see the specks >is likely to be able to see the eyes and mouth of the guy wearing it. The entire purpose of camouflage is not to make you invisible, but rather to conceal your outline. Random patterns and images (including specks) contribute to this "low observability", and make your shape more difficult to resolve (and therefore more difficult to get a bead on). Of course, if you're close enough to resolve the specks, either you or the guy wearin' them is going to be coming to a rather abrupt demise.... |/|/|/|/| | | | | | (o o) C _) | ,___/ | / /______ "I'm outta here, man!" -shane d deichman t t tdd
palm@admin.kth.se (Christer Palm) (08/28/90)
From: palm@admin.kth.se (Christer Palm) In article <1990Aug23.014156.597@cbnews.att.com> gse@ida.liu.se (Goran Sedvall) writes: >I have noticed that US have a lot of diffrent camo on their uniforms. >Actually, when and where are the diffrent camo used and why are they >diffrent? I build and paint 120 mm model soldier and recently finnich >a airbourne radio operator in woodland cammo and, for an example, I >notice several diffrences in the cutting between flat green uniform and >woodland. Here in Sweden, we have only one colour (green) on ours uniform. >Any comments? Sweden has a new uniform with a camo pattern with colours with the same or almost the same colourtemeperature as Swedish woodland. I saw it for the first time 1987. /Christer
draggi@milton.u.washington.edu (Antony Ferrucci) (08/31/90)
From: draggi@milton.u.washington.edu (Antony Ferrucci)
A while back someone mentioned studies done (during the 2nd WW?) about
various camo schemes. I am working on a paper that also deals with the
use of camoflage - by troops, ships, planes, and equipment. Would whoever
knows about those studies please send me the information that will let me
find them in the library, or wherever?
For example, a "pink-gray" was found to be the best color for ships in
the Med (?!). The type of blue on the underbellies of aircraft depended
on their normal operating altitude (?!). Etc, etc, etc.
Thank you very, VERY much in advance.
Ciao! - - Uncle Draggigse@ida.liu.se (Goran Sedvall) (09/02/90)
From: gse@ida.liu.se (Goran Sedvall) palm@admin.kth.se (Christer Palm) writes: >In article <1990Aug23.014156.597@cbnews.att.com> gse@ida.liu.se (Goran Sedvall) writes: >>Here in Sweden, we have only one colour (green) on ours uniform. >>Any comments? >Sweden has a new uniform with a camo pattern with colours with the same or >almost the same colourtemeperature as Swedish woodland. I saw it for the >first time 1987. Okey, okey, I know that. The name of the uniform is m/90. The army has start to use the uniform this year, but only officers use them for the moment. The uniform you have seen might be a test uniform. Goran