oppr@cardiac-ra.SWMED.UTEXAS.EDU (Roger Opperman) (10/09/90)
From: oppr@cardiac-ra.SWMED.UTEXAS.EDU (Roger Opperman) Just saw the sneak preview of _Memphis Belle_. As a movie, it was very, very well done. The whole theatre was on the edge of their seats for the last 45 minutes. Looked like they only had 3 operational B-17's; adroit camera work and editing gave a convincing imitation of more, but there were always three in the foreground during the loading/taxiing sequences. Air combat scenes were, IMHO, quite good. Looked like they did real passes with fighters and then editted in the tracers. Used four or so P-51s for the 'little friendlies' -- I didn't get a good look at the German planes. Roger Opperman oppr@cardiac-ra.swmed.utexas.edu
rogers%npdiss1.stpaul.ncr.com@RELAY.CS.NET (10/11/90)
From: rogers%npdiss1.stpaul.ncr.com@RELAY.CS.NET oppr@cardiac-ra.SWMED.UTEXAS.EDU (Roger Opperman) writes: >Just saw the sneak preview of _Memphis Belle_... >Looked like they only had 3 operational B-17's; adroit camera work and >editing gave a convincing imitation of more, but there were always >three in the foreground during the loading/taxiing sequences. I heard an interview with the producer on the BBC World Service. When asked if it was hard to get the equipment he said: "When we started there where only 12 flyable B-17s in the world, when we finished there were only 11 (through no fault of our own)." He said that during the filming they "usually" worked with "4 or 5". The current issue of "Air Classics" magazine has a story on the making of the movie; it gives a list of planes used and their histories. At least one actually saw combat. More consideration should be given to the use of important authentic planes for shows, filming, etc. or we'll lose more historic artifacts. By the way the original documentary "Memphis Belle" is available on video tape - it's well worth renting. ---- Bob Rogers rogers@stpaul.ncr.com NCR Network Products Div. (or) rogers@pnet51.cts.com St. Paul, MN GEnie: R.C.ROGERS
ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Nur Iskandar Taib) (10/15/90)
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Nur Iskandar Taib) ****************************************************************************** I heard an interview with the producer on the BBC World Service. When asked if it was hard to get the equipment he said: "When we started there where only 12 flyable B-17s in the world, when we finished there were only 11 (through no fault of our own)." He said that during the filming they "usually" worked with ****************************************************************************** What actually happened? I heard about a B-17 that crashed during the filming of a movie, but I wasn't sure if it was THIS movie! Do the people who fly in them still wear para- chutes, I wonder... I still wonder where they got all those Mosquitoes for that movie (I think it was called Squadron 603) about the attack on the german heavy water plant in a norwegian fjord. I ex- pect most were models, but.. Do termites attack airplanes? Mosquito owners would have this one extra worry, I imagine! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Iskandar Taib | The only thing worse than Peach ala Internet: NTAIB@AQUA.UCS.INDIANA.EDU | Frog is Frog ala Peach Bitnet: NTAIB@IUBACS !
ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Nur Iskandar Taib) (10/24/90)
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Nur Iskandar Taib) *>Incidentally, the German aircraft in "633 Squadron" look like real *>Messerschmidts, but 108's, not 109's. The Bf 108 was a light transport *>aircraft, not a fighter. It looks a bit like a Bf 109, but with a I haven't seen pictures of the Me108 "Taifun", but it supposedly had a pretty ellitpical wing like the Spitfire. R.J. Mitchell was supposedly influenced by this. Taifuns were popular as personal transports, so I hear. But if Me109s are scarce, wouldn't 108s be even scarcer? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Iskandar Taib | The only thing worse than Peach ala Internet: NTAIB@AQUA.UCS.INDIANA.EDU | Frog is Frog ala Peach Bitnet: NTAIB@IUBACS !
adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk (Adrian Hurt) (10/24/90)
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk> In article <1990Oct15.033615.12299@cbnews.att.com> ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Nur Iskandar Taib) writes: > >I still wonder where they got all those Mosquitoes for that >movie (I think it was called Squadron 603) about the attack >on the german heavy water plant in a norwegian fjord. I ex- >pect most were models, but.. That's "633 Squadron". 603 Squadron was a real live squadron of Spitfires; I don't know if it still exists, and what it uses today if it does. I think it's safe to assume that all the Mosquitos seen in combat scenes in "633 Squadron" were models, especially the ones that were damaged or destroyed! However, there is at least one Mosquito still flying, which has been used in films as well as air displays - I saw it last month at the annual air display at Leuchars. Here is what the leaflet from the show says. ---- "The Mosquito T Mk 3 on display served with Nos. 114 and 204 Squadrons, as well as numerous second line units until 1963 when Hawker Siddeley brought it to Hawarden. The aircraft starred in the big screen film "Mosquito Squadron", and subsequently in the television film "A Man Called Intrepid". Mosquito RR299 is now owned and operated by British Aerospace at Chester." ---- "Mosquito Squadron" is not the same film as "633 Squadron". However, this machine has the squadron letters HT, which also appeared in "633 Squadron", so it may have been in that film. Incidentally, the German aircraft in "633 Squadron" look like real Messerschmidts, but 108's, not 109's. The Bf 108 was a light transport aircraft, not a fighter. It looks a bit like a Bf 109, but with a different engine entirely. Mind you, even Bf 109's would have been wrong for "633 Squadron" - in the book, they were always opposed by Focke-Wulf Fw 190's, except for the attack on their own base which was carried out by Bf 110's. Presumably the makers couldn't get hold of any real Fw 190's or Bf 110's. "Keyboard? How quaint!" - M. Scott Adrian Hurt | JANET: adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian | ARPA: adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk
fiddler%concertina@Sun.COM (Steve Hix) (10/25/90)
From: fiddler%concertina@Sun.COM (Steve Hix) > From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Nur Iskandar Taib) > *>Incidentally, the German aircraft in "633 Squadron" look like real > *>Messerschmidts, but 108's, not 109's. The Bf 108 was a light transport > *>aircraft, not a fighter. It looks a bit like a Bf 109, but with a > > I haven't seen pictures of the Me108 "Taifun", but > it supposedly had a pretty ellitpical wing like > the Spitfire. R.J. Mitchell was supposedly influenced > by this. Taifuns were popular as personal transports, > so I hear. But if Me109s are scarce, wouldn't 108s > be even scarcer? A Bf-109 (even though more than 30,000 were made) isn't very useful other than as a fighter. A lot more people would find a Taifun (Bf-108) or a Bonanza or a Navion to be useful. So a larger percentage would be maintained and saved over the years. Also, the Taifun was built in France for several years as the Nord. -- ------------ The only drawback with morning is that it comes at such an inconvenient time of day. ------------
welty@lewis.crd.ge.com (richard welty) (10/30/90)
From: welty@lewis.crd.ge.com (richard welty)
a little while back, someone mentioned that they thought that
the B-17s in the film ``Memphis Belle'' looked like late war
aircraft, where the film was set in 1943. now that i've finally
seen the film, i can address the query (i did enjoy the film,
by the way.)
the B-17s were actually fairly representative of B-17F models,
the aircraft which were used in that period. the earliest models
of Fortress (A through D) used in wwii either 1) were used only in
the pacific or 2) were only used by the RAF costal command. the
E model was only manufactured in small numbers; they introduced a
completely redesigned tail and much heavier armament and armor.
the remote control belly turret of the E model was unsuccessful in
practice, being balky and unreliable. the F model was the first
large production B-17; they introduced the manned ball turret. the
aircraft in the film had the ball turret, the early tail gun
enclosure (later aircraft had a much larger greenhouse for the
tail gunner), the two nose machine guns for the navigator and
bombadier (the G model introduced the chin turret), and the
open waist gunner and open radio operator windows (later aircraft
enclosed these firing positions.)
the most notable slip i saw was the use of P-51s as `little
friends'; in 1943, escorts were still fairly limited range
fighters, and the P-51 (with drop tanks) was one of the fighters
that allowed escort to the target and back.
richard
--
richard welty 518-387-6346, GE R&D, K1-5C39, Niskayuna, New York
welty@lewis.crd.ge.com ...!crdgw1!lewis.crd.ge.com!welty
``We're in a road movie to Berlin, can't drive out the way we drove in''
-- They Might Be Giantsrjg@uunet.UU.NET (Robert J. Granvin) (11/01/90)
From: plains!umnstat.stat.umn.edu!rjg@uunet.UU.NET (Robert J. Granvin) In article <1990Oct30.051346.5620@cbnews.att.com> welty@lewis.crd.ge.com (richard welty) writes: > >the most notable slip i saw was the use of P-51s as `little >friends'; in 1943, escorts were still fairly limited range >fighters, and the P-51 (with drop tanks) was one of the fighters >that allowed escort to the target and back. In the November 1990 issue of Air Classics, there is an article by Jim Farmer on the making of Memphis Belle. The article is quite complete, down to a roster of the aircraft used. The point about the P-51D's was noted in the article: [Words of Roger Freeman] "I remember, we sat 'round a table with them all at a very early date. This is before I'd read the script and they informed me they were going to have to use Mustangs in the film, which were in completely the wrong time period. The director (Michael Caton-Jones) said we're having Mustangs because we can't get P-47's. And I said 'but you want Spitfires.' This was the time of the unescorted raid. Spitfires used to take the Forts as far as they could (across the channel). 'There are plenth of Spits in England, use Spitfires.' And he said, 'No, the British and American public associate the Spitfire with the Battle of Britain.' Full stop. End of discussion. "You know movie people. They certainly discussed each point we made. I will give them that." The movie used seven P-51D's, three Messerschmitts, and five B-17's. All the Me's are Spanish-built CASA HA.1112 Buchons. Four of the 17's are G models, one a true F. -17 F-BEEA, who played Baby Ruth for part of the film was destroyed on takeoff at Binbrook on 25 July 1989. Her role was replaced by G-BEDF, Sally B, who took on the identity of eight aircraft, including doubling as the Belle. By the way, the camera ship was a B-25J; "Dolly", a veteran camera aircraft (over 20 years). Good article. Some nice insight into how they simulated more than the five (or four)-: -17's they had. Robert J. Granvin E/Mail: rjg@umnstat.stat.umn.edu User Services Specialist AT&T: +1 612 625 9224 School of Statistics University of Minnesota
dt4100c@uunet.UU.NET (Derek Terveer) (11/03/90)
From: medtron!dt4100c@uunet.UU.NET (Derek Terveer) In article <1990Oct22.040454.19150@cbnews.att.com> adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk (Adrian Hurt) Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk> writes: > Presumably the makers couldn't get hold of any > real Fw 190's or Bf 110's. Or, just as likely in my opinion, they thought that the general public wouldn't know/care... derek -- Derek "Tigger" Terveer Just the facts, ma'am: det@medtronic.com
military@cbnews.att.com (William B. Thacker) (11/06/90)
From: p0.f7.n391.z1.fidonet.org!Scott.Johnson (Scott Johnson)
RW> From: welty@lewis.crd.ge.com (richard welty)
RW> G model introduced the chin turret), and the open waist gunner
RW> and open radio operator windows (later aircraft enclosed these
RW> firing positions.)
All but one of the 5 B-17s used were -G models, with the chin
turrets removed to make them _look_ like -F models. The -F had open
waist positions, along with no door for the tail gunner's compartment
(the opening was covered with a peice of canvas), and the -G models
closed them in. Also, in later blocks of the -G models, the old
"peashooter" tail gun was replaced with the Cheyenne (sp?) turret. It
shortened the tail by about 1 1/2 feet, and had a reflecting gunsight. I
_think_ it may also have been powered.