MEDELMA@CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU (Michael Edelman) (11/01/90)
From: Michael Edelman <MEDELMA@CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU>
Regarding Dr. Tsipis' comments on the M1: There is an excellent book,
recommended to me by a friend who does some subcontract work on these.
The book is called "King of the Killing Ground" (author's name escapes
me) and is a detailed history of the development of the M1 Abrahams.
Basically, the kinds of problems that Tsipis and other have alleged are
problems dealt with in development, and which have been addressed in
production and in the improved models.
Some of the purported problems have been exaggerations, or ideas based
on faulty understanding of tanks, or just out-and-out fabrications, not
unlike the rumor that a recently-canceled ground defense system "locked
onto a lavatory fan". (Remember that one?)
One story that was often repeated was that M1 tank drivers had a high
incidence of falling asleep due to the comfortable reclining driver's
seat. This seems to have come from somewhere between zero and 1 incident...
--mike edelman medelma@cms.cc.wayne.edu
[mod.note: The legend about the Abrams driver's seat may be linked with
something I was told by an engineer from the Lima (OH) tank plant. She
claimed that when the workers at the plant turn up missing, they can
usually be found asleep in the driver's seat. Possibly this led to
some concerns about the crewmen, or perhaps it's an exaggeration, too.
- Bill ]curt@uunet.UU.NET (Curt Fennell) (11/03/90)
From: fmrco!curt@uunet.UU.NET (Curt Fennell) In article <1990Nov1.025300.12582@cbnews.att.com> MEDELMA@CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU (Michael Edelman) writes: >Some of the purported problems have been exaggerations, or ideas based >on faulty understanding of tanks, or just out-and-out fabrications, not >unlike the rumor that a recently-canceled ground defense system "locked >onto a lavatory fan". (Remember that one?) > There seem to be a number of fallacies about the M1 that are still being perpetuated that either were never true or were corrected during development. I don't know anything about Dr. Tsipis, but the original problems that the M1's turbine engine had with dust and dirt ingestion have been fixed since 1982, at least. Of the officers I know that were sent to M1 units, all of them were very impressed with the M1's ability and none of them ever mentioned any serious maintenance problems. >One story that was often repeated was that M1 tank drivers had a high >incidence of falling asleep due to the comfortable reclining driver's >seat. This seems to have come from somewhere between zero and 1 incident... It's true that the drivers seat in an M1 is very easy to fall asleep in; and it's also true that the average tank crewman will always catch a few Z's whenever he can ( I've fallen asleep in the gunners' seat of a moving M60!). BUT, I've never seen any accident reports, nor heard anything to indicate that there have been a lot of M1 drivers falling asleep while driving. I'm sure that all M1 drivers sleep in their seats when the tank is not moving - that's about all they have to do when the tank is stopped anyway. (the loaders get most of the dirty outside-the-tank jobs). > --mike edelman medelma@cms.cc.wayne.edu On a side note, when I was a tank platoon commander, I always left the tank park with all of my tanks working. However, in any training exercise that lasted longer than 3 days in the field, I think I only made it back to the tank park with all 5 of my tanks once. And my tanks were the old reliable M60A1's. Tanks break. They throw track; torsion bars break; transmissions leak oil and final drives don't 'drive'. That's just a part of being a tanker. So even when we beat the infantry units back to the rear areas, because we were riding and they were walking, my men usually got back to the barracks long after the average grunt because they had to take care of their tanks first. -- ================================================================= Curt Fennell |Fidelity Investments | fmrco!curt@uunet.uu.net |82 Devonshire St. (I40C) | (617) 570-2614 |Boston, MA 02109 |
major@uunet.UU.NET (Mike Schmitt) (11/14/90)
From: bcstec!shuksan!major@uunet.UU.NET (Mike Schmitt) In article <1990Nov2.202816.29403@cbnews.att.com>, fmrco!curt@uunet.UU.NET (Curt Fennell) writes: > > Of the officers I know that were sent to M1 units, all of them were very > impressed with the M1's ability and none of them ever mentioned any serious > maintenance problems. I was with the 3d Mech Div when they received the first European contingent of new M1s. Most complained of the typical tank-problems (see your note below) - but all of of the crews - without exception - loved that new tank. > It's true that the drivers seat in an M1 is very easy to fall asleep in; and > it's also true that the average tank crewman will always catch a few Z's > whenever he can ( I've fallen asleep in the gunners' seat of a moving > M60!). BUT, I've never seen any accident reports, nor heard anything to > indicate that there have been a lot of M1 drivers falling asleep while > driving. I'm sure that all M1 drivers sleep in their seats when the tank > is not moving - that's about all they have to do when the tank is stopped > anyway. (the loaders get most of the dirty outside-the-tank jobs). Most drivers - once they roll into a defensive position - will idle down their engine (so they don't blow a pack) then go to sleep (often ordered to sleep - especially after a long road march. > > On a side note, when I was a tank platoon commander, I always left the > tank park with all of my tanks working. However, in any training exercise that > lasted longer than 3 days in the field, I think I only made it back to the > tank park with all 5 of my tanks once. And my tanks were the old reliable > M60A1's. ....and the M60A3's could be just as reliable. But pity the tank unit with the M60A2! That tank was a piece of junk! I watched one tank unit (2-64 Armor) with A2's deploy out of Hohenfels' tank park with 54 tanks go into a tactical assembly area - move out to cross the LD - go into an attack - and finally reach the first objective ----- with two operational tanks left!! I think one Armored Division divided their A2's so there was one company of A2's in each Arm Bn - 3ID, unfortunately, put all of it's A2's in one battalion. > Tanks break. They throw track; torsion bars break; transmissions leak oil > and final drives don't 'drive'. That's just a part of being a tanker. > So even when we beat the infantry units back to the rear areas, because > we were riding and they were walking, my men usually got back to the barracks > long after the average grunt because they had to take care of their tanks > first. ....and tracks get thrown.....to the inside. You've just covered the byline of a tanker. mike schmitt