jepullia@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (John Pulliam) (10/25/90)
From: jepullia@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (John Pulliam) >From: Eric Price <sagpd1!eprice> > Can any one provide the T.O. and E. ( Table of Organization and > Equipment) for a U.S. Army Division. This would be down to the > Batallion/Company level for an Armoured, Mechanized, Light and > Airborne/Airmobile Division. You asked for it! 8-) WARNING: this is a long posting; all readers may want to save now, read later. The following information is taken from US Army FM 101-10-1/1, Staff Officers' Field Manual (Distribution unlimited, approved for public release), Oct '87 (J-series TO&Es). Abbreviations used throughout: IN - Infantry EN - Engineer Div - Division AR - Armor CM - Chemical Bde - Brigade FA - Field Artillery MP - Military Police Bn - Battalion AD - Air Defense Arty MI - Military Intel Co - Company AV - Aviation SI - Signal Plt - Platoon CAV - Cavalry (not a branch, but still distinct) HHC - Headquarters and Headquarters Company DISCOM - Div Support Command (Transpo, Supply, Medical, Maintenance, etc. in here) I. Armored Division 1 Div HHC 1 Div Arty 1 MI Bn 1 DISCOM 2 AR Bde HHCs 1 ADA Bn 1 SI Bn 1 Band 1 IN Bde HHC 1 Air CAV Bde 1 MP Co 6 AR Bns 1 EN Bn 1 CM Co 4 IN Bns (Mech) We currently have three active-duty Arm Divs: the 1st, 2nd and 3rd. 1st and 3rd are in Germany, 2nd is based out of Ft Hood. II. Mechanized Infantry Division 1 Div HHC 1 Div Arty 1 MI Bn 1 DISCOM 2 IN Bde HHCs 1 ADA Bn 1 SI Bn 1 Band 1 AR Bde HHC 1 Air CAV Bde 1 MP Co 5 IN Bns (Mech) 1 EN Bn 1 CM Co 5 AR Bns Looks just like the AR Div, except for the ratios of Bde HHCs (2/1 v. 1/2) and IN/AR Bns (6/4 v. 5/5). We currently have eight active-duty Mech Divs: the 1st (Ft Riley), 2nd (Korea), 3rd (Germany), 4th (Ft Carson), 5th (Ft Polk), 8th (Germany), 24th (based out of Ft Stewart), and 25th (?)(Hawaii). III. Light Infantry Division 1 Div HHC 1 Div Arty 1 MI Bn 1 DISCOM 3 IN Bde HHCs 1 ADA Bn 1 SI Bn 1 Band 9 IN Bns (Lt) 1 Cbt AV Cmd 1 MP Co 1 EN Bn Biggest differences from Heavy Divs: no armor punch; every unit has lighter equipment, fewer soldiers than its heavy cousin; no CM Co. We currently have three active-duty Light Divs: the 6th (Ft Richardson), 7th (Ft Ord) and 10th (technically, a Mountain Div, out of Ft Drum). IV. Air Assault Division 1 Div HHC 1 Div Arty 1 MI Bn 1 DISCOM 3 IN Bde HHCs 1 ADA Bn 1 SI Bn 9 IN Bns 1 Cbt AV Bde 1 MP Co 1 Air Recon Sq 1 EN Bn 1 NBC Co A unique animal is the 101st Airborne Div (Air Assault). The largest (in numbers of soldiers) division in the US Army (that's right, more troops than a heavy division), with a _lot_ of helicopters and just as many infantrymen as a light division. Above and beyond its Combat AV Bde, the division has an Air Recon Squadron. The only thing this division is missing is a band (and surely that's just a mistake in the manual; we all know you can't fight without a band! 8-). V. Airborne Division 1 Div HHC 1 Div Arty 1 MI Bn 1 DISCOM 3 IN Bde HHCs 1 ADA Bn 1 SI Bn 1 Band 9 IN Bns 1 Cbt AV Bde 1 MP Co 1 Tank Bn 1 EN Bn 1 NBC Co Another unique animal, the 82nd Airborne. Note that, all the ominous press to the contrary, the 82nd is not nearly the lightweight you might think. It has its own Combat AV Bde, as well as its own AR Bn (the manual didn't show the Tank Bn, but I know for a fact that 3-73 Armor is in the 82nd, so I added it myself), and as many infantrymen as any light division to boot. The 82nd and 101st are, in fact, in the middle ground region, lighter than a heavy division, but heavier/more agile than the light divisions [my personal opinion is, they got some bad press back in August... is it obvious? 8-)] There are two other "one of a kind" divisions which you didn't ask about: the 9th Infantry Div (Motorized) and the 1st Cavalry Division. Since (1) you didn't ask, (2) the 2nd Cav Div's TO&E isn't in FM 101-10-1/1, and (3) the 9th Motorized is going the way of the dinosaur soon, I won't include sections for them. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about the 25th ID; I've never served on the west coast. 8-) John Pulliam
ntb0860@dsac.dla.mil (Ed Lang) (10/29/90)
From: ntb0860@dsac.dla.mil (Ed Lang) >From article <1990Oct25.145938.287@cbnews.att.com>, by jepullia@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (John Pulliam): > From: jepullia@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (John Pulliam) >>From: Eric Price <sagpd1!eprice> > > We currently have three active-duty Arm Divs: the 1st, 2nd > and 3rd. 1st and 3rd are in Germany, 2nd is based out of Ft Hood. > > (2/1 v. 1/2) and IN/AR Bns (6/4 v. 5/5). We currently have eight > active-duty Mech Divs: the 1st (Ft Riley), 2nd (Korea), 3rd (Germany), > 4th (Ft Carson), 5th (Ft Polk), 8th (Germany), 24th (based out of > Ft Stewart), and 25th (?)(Hawaii). > > CM Co. We currently have three active-duty Light Divs: the 6th (Ft > Richardson), 7th (Ft Ord) and 10th (technically, a Mountain Div, out > a of Ft Drum). John, The 25 ID is in Hawaii - They prefer the Tropical (Lightning) environments. I would like to clear up a misconception that some un-informed readers may draw from your otherwise accurate post. That is, not all Active Componet Units are made up of just Active personnel. The National Guard and Reserves provide some Reserve Componet units to Divisons as roundout units eg: 1 ID has one NG maneuver battalion, 1 CAV has one NG Brigade, 2 NG battalions, 1 NG Arty Bn 2 AD has 1 NG manuever Bn 4 ID has 1 NG manuever Bn 5 ID has 1 NG manuever Bde, 1 NG manuever Bn, 1 NG Arty Bn 6 ID has 1 Res Manuever Bde, 1 Res Arty Bn 10 ID has 1 NG manuever Bde, 1 NG Arty Bn 24 ID has 1 NG manuever Bde, 1 NG Arty Bn By the way the 24 ID roundout units were pissed that they did not get called up to play in the sand. ^^^^ ^^ ^^^ ^^^^ These roundout units are assigned as the TO&E units that your post suggests. Ed Lang. --> You can't live forever, fix bayonets and over the top!
carlson@gateway (Bruce Carlson) (10/29/90)
From: carlson@gateway (Bruce Carlson) In article <1990Oct25.145938.287@cbnews.att.com> jepullia@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (John Pulliam) writes: > - TO&E listings deleted - > >Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about the 25th ID; I've never >served on the west coast. 8-) > >John Pulliam 25th ID was previously a non-mechanized division (howitzers are towed, not self-propelled, etc.). In 1984 they began the conversion to a Light Infantry Division and I assume it is complete by now. I was assigned to 25th ID at the time they started the conversion to a light division some of the changes were odd/interesting. The ones I remember are: - 60mm company-level mortar, 81mm at battalion level (vs 81mm and 4.2inch) - no combat support company in an infantry battalion; only 3 line companies and a combined HHC/CSC company - largest howitzer in DIVARTY was 105mm, vs. the previous 155mm - DISCOM was decimated; assumption was that the light division was inserted for a 72 hour fight and didn't need much support; support troops would come from echelons above division The Army had been criticized for having a very low foxhole strength (number of combat troops) relative to the size of a division. The light division is supposed to maximize the ratio of combat to support troops, but may not always maximize combat power (because of the smaller caliber weaponry used). One of the original concepts of the light division development was to pick a number of C-141's and design a division that could be transported by that number of C-141's. I don't know how they picked a number for how many C-141's is reasonable. Bruce Carlson carlson@gateway.mitre.org
mikes@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Mike Sheumaker) (10/30/90)
From: mikes@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Mike Sheumaker) In article <1990Oct25.145938.287@cbnews.att.com> jepullia@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (John Pulliam) writes: > > >From: jepullia@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (John Pulliam) >>From: Eric Price <sagpd1!eprice> >> Can any one provide the T.O. and E. ( Table of Organization and >> Equipment) for a U.S. Army Division. This would be down to the >> Batallion/Company level for an Armoured, Mechanized, Light and >> Airborne/Airmobile Division. > >You asked for it! 8-) WARNING: this is a long posting; all readers >may want to save now, read later. Excellent TO&E info deleted for bandwidth's sake... > >Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about the 25th ID; I've never >served on the west coast. 8-) > >John Pulliam The 25th Inf. Div. (Schofield Barracks, Hawaii) is also a unique animal. Please forgive me for being so vague (don't have the FM here :) ), this is all from memory. (G Co. 725th. MT BN 1981-1984 Missile Maint.) I'm fairly sure that the Div HQ, number of Inf Bns, Engineers, Discom, etc. is the same (or real close) to a Light Inf. Div. However, there was (in 1984) a company sized Cav. detachment with approx. 12 M60 tanks. No APC's were to be found in the 25th. They are (were) a "leg" Inf. Div. Lotsa deuce-and-a-halves around. During exercises such as "Team Spirit" (similar to REFORGER only this time it's Korea), the Inf.guys were trucked to a location, then walked the rest of the way. The 25th needs to be "light" because of it's mission, defending South Korea in the event of war with the North. Korean terrain (most of it anyway) is not suited for large-scale armor battles. Unfortunately for the guys on the ground, the best way to get around in Korea is on foot...:-) Hope this is some help.. Mike Sheumaker University of Illinois Network Design Office mikes@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
military@cbnews.att.com (William B. Thacker) (11/01/90)
From: qip.UCAR.EDU!anasaz!scott (Scott Gibson) >From: jepullia@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (John Pulliam) > > 1 Div HHC 1 Div Arty 1 MI Bn 1 DISCOM > 2 IN Bde HHCs 1 ADA Bn 1 SI Bn 1 Band > 1 AR Bde HHC 1 Air CAV Bde 1 MP Co > 5 IN Bns (Mech) 1 EN Bn 1 CM Co > 5 AR Bns > > Looks just like the AR Div, except for the ratios of Bde HHCs >(2/1 v. 1/2) and IN/AR Bns (6/4 v. 5/5). We currently have eight >active-duty Mech Divs: the 1st (Ft Riley), 2nd (Korea), 3rd (Germany), >4th (Ft Carson), 5th (Ft Polk), 8th (Germany), 24th (based out of >Ft Stewart), and 25th (?)(Hawaii). The 25th IN Division, in Schofield Barracks, Hawaii, is a light infantry division (or was when I served in it, up until 1986). It has never to my knowledge been a mechanized infantry division in the post VietNam era. > Biggest differences from Heavy Divs: no armor punch; every >unit has lighter equipment, fewer soldiers than its heavy cousin; no >CM Co. We currently have three active-duty Light Divs: the 6th (Ft >Richardson), 7th (Ft Ord) and 10th (technically, a Mountain Div, out >of Ft Drum). The 10th Mountain is a mountain division in name only; it features no special skills or missions beyond the norm for a light infantry division. Scott
major@uunet.UU.NET (Mike Schmitt) (11/03/90)
From: bcstec!shuksan!major@uunet.UU.NET (Mike Schmitt)
In article <1990Oct25.145938.287@cbnews.att.com>, jepullia@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (John Pulliam) writes:
I believe the 25th Inf Div ("Tropic Lightning") is classed as a Light
Division - as is the 2d Inf Div ("Indian Head") in Korea. The TOE of
Light Divisions often call for one Mech Inf Battalion and one Tank
Battalion - to give them a little more punch.
However, the 7th Inf Div ("Bayonet") is 'pure' light infantry - without
a Mech Bn or Tank Bn (these were supposed to be local National Guard
'roundout' units for the 7th). When I left the 7th (Jun '83) there were
plans afoot to require all officers and NCOs to be 'Ranger-qualified' for
assignment to the 7LID (don't know if that came about, though)
Also, heavy division's artillery support is self-propelled. Light
division's artillery is towed.
The Tank Unit(s) of the 82d Airborne are equipped with the M551 Sheridan.
It's airdroppable ('course the M1 can be dropped by air too - ONCE!)
The 9th ID ("Old Reliables") is 'motorized' since most of it's troop
carrying is done by wheels, and dune-buggy-type gun jeeps, etc - but
it's being phased out (last week the 1st Brigade cased its colors).
The 1st Cav ("First Team") is more akin to an Airmobile Division (they
move around the battlefield by helicoptor). And there isn't a 2nd Cav Div.
-----------------------
But, all in all, good info, John. You're next mission, should you decide
to accept it, is to look up the TO&E for Armored Cavalry Regiments and
Separate Brigades. (That ought to confuse everybody)
-----------------------
mike schmitt
ab3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Allan Bourdius) (11/03/90)
From: Allan Bourdius <ab3o+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Since the TOE's for Army Divisions have been posted, I think I'll do my
part by posting the TOE for a Marine Expeditionary Force of the size
currently in the Middle East. (1 Marine Division, 1 Marine Aircraft
Wing, 1 Force Service Support Group)
Marine Division:
3 Infantry Regiments
3 Infantry Battalions
3 Rifle Companies, 1 Weapons Company, 1 Headquarters Company
1 Headquarters Battalion
1 Artillery Regiment
4 Artillery Battalions
3 Batteries with 6 x M198 each, 6 x M109A2, or 6 X M110A2
1 Tank Battalion
4 Companies with approximately 75 M60A1
1 Reconnaisance Battalion
3 Reconnaisance Companies
1 Light Armored Infantry Battalion
4 Companies with approximately 150 LAV-25 and variants
Headquarters Battalion
Headquarters Company
Force Recon Company
Marine Aircraft Wing:
3 Fighter/Attack Groups (composition varies)
4 Squadrons F-18
4 Squadrons AV-8B
1 Squadron A-6E
Helicopter Group (composition varies)
3 Squadrons CH-46D
2 Squadrons AH-1W
1 Squadron CH-53D/E
1 Squadron UH-1N
Electronic Warfare Squadron w/ EA-6B
Reconaissance Squadron w/ RF-18 and OV-10
Aerial Refueller/Transport Squadron w/ KC-130H
Support Group
Air Control Group
Headquarters Squadron
Marine Expeditionary Airfield Squadron
Force Service Support Group:
Combat Engineer Battalion
Motor Transport Battalion
Medical Battalion
Shore Party Battalion
Service Battalion
Supply and Logistics Battalion
Military Police Battalion
Intelligence Battalion
Headquarters Battalion
All in all, a pretty formidable unit, wouldn't you say?
Allan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
MIDN 3/C (PLC-JR) Allan Bourdius, Carnegie Mellon University NROTC
"Uncommon valor was a common virtue." ab3o+@andrew.cmu.edu
The opinons expressed in this letter/posting do not, nor are they intended
to, reflect the official policies/positions of DOD, DON, USMC, USN, NROTC,
or CMU. Any information in this posting was obtained using unclassified
material and/or personal intuition, analysis, or extrapolation.geoffm@EBay.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller) (11/05/90)
From: geoffm@EBay.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller)
A couple of questions:
(1) What exactly is "mechanized infantry?" Is it the same as standard
infantry, except for the fact that that the troops get to ride to
the battle in armored personnel carriers? Or are there tanks and/or
artillery that are integral with the infantry unit?
(2) I've noticed that the U.S. has "mechanized infantry" divisions and the
USSR has "motorized rifle" divisions. Are these simply different names
for the same thing, or are there substantial differences between the
two?
Thanks,
Geoff
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Geoff Miller + + + + + + + + Sun Microsystems
geoffm@purplehaze.sun.com + + + + + + + + Milpitas, California
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-ab3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Allan Bourdius) (11/06/90)
From: Allan Bourdius <ab3o+@andrew.cmu.edu>
With apologies, I made one slight ommission from the structure of a
Marine Division:
Marine Division:
3 Infantry Regiments
3 Infantry Battalions
3 Rifle Companies, 1 Weapons Company, 1 Headquarters Company
1 Headquarters Battalion
1 Artillery Regiment
4 Artillery Battalions
3 Batteries with 6 x M198 each, 6 x M109A2, or 6 X M110A2
1 Tank Battalion
4 Companies with approximately 75 M60A1 (total)
1 Assault Amphibian Battalion
4 Companies with approximately 150 AAV7A2/A3's and variants (total)
1 Reconnaisance Battalion
3 Reconnaisance Companies
1 Light Armored Infantry Battalion
4 Companies with approximately 150 LAV-25 and variants
Headquarters Battalion
Headquarters Company
Force Recon Company
Thanks.
Allanmajor@uunet.UU.NET (Mike Schmitt) (11/06/90)
From: bcstec!shuksan!major@uunet.UU.NET (Mike Schmitt) In article <1990Oct29.030230.7511@cbnews.att.com>, carlson@gateway (Bruce Carlson) writes: > > > From: carlson@gateway (Bruce Carlson) > > - largest howitzer in DIVARTY was 105mm, vs. the previous 155mm Just a side note: In 1982, the 7th ID received a new 155mm towed howitzer along with a 5T extended-bed truck to pull it. The 7th's Air Defense Battalion had a towed Vulcan - but interestingly enough a self-propelled (tracked) Chapparal - the only tracked vehicle in the Division's inventory (plus the M578 VTR to pull the Chapparal's out of holes) > - DISCOM was decimated; assumption was that the light division was inserted > for a 72 hour fight and didn't need much support; support troops would > come from echelons above division The wierd thing is - that was the concept for a DISCOM in the first place so BRIGADES would be 'lighter' - receiving their support from Division. - so they shove support higher - and the poor brigades get zippo (???) (Oh well - I won't pick on logisticians :-)) mike schmitt
jepullia@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (John Pulliam) (11/06/90)
From: jepullia@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (John Pulliam) In article <1990Nov4.210449.4182@cbnews.att.com> geoffm@EBay.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller) writes: > >(1) What exactly is "mechanized infantry?" Is it the same as standard > infantry, except for the fact that that the troops get to ride to > the battle in armored personnel carriers? Or are there tanks and/or > artillery that are integral with the infantry unit? First, I'm a combat engineer, not an infantryman, so I suppose I should wait to see if a grunt 8-) answers this; but I won't. 8-) Couple of concepts mixed together in this question: first, the US and most other modern armies fight their battles using what _we_ call "combined arms teams." That means that you will usually not see infantry, or armor, or even army aviation units fighting alone. Rather (as shown in the TO&Es of the heavy divisions), you fight with a mix of infantry, armor, artillery, aviation, engineers, etc. on the battlefield together. There are times when you will see infantry without armor (very restrictive terrain) or armor without infantry (very fluid battle, table-top terrain, little use of obstacles, etc.), but you will still find each type of maneuver unit (IN or AR) supported by the other branches. Armor units are integral to all Mech Infantry divisions (in fact, there's just about as much of one as the other). It is the Light Infantry divisions which have no assigned/integral armor units. This answers the doctrinal and organizational side of your question. Second, there is more -- tactically -- to Mech Infantry than just "Light Infantry in a metal taxicab." The carrier has armament of its own, which "beefs up" the firepower considerably over what the infantry squad would have organic otherwise. In addition, an infantry squad _can_ fight from inside the Bradley (there are four or six firing ports in the sides for squad members to fire their M16s/SAWs out of, although I understand doing so is a real pain in the behind (cramped quarters, limited visibility). Nevertheless, when push comes to shove, you usually see the infantry dismounting and fighting on the ground. I am not a fan of Mech personally (prefer the light side 8-), but as you can see, the Mech Infantry has a lot of flexibility that neither Light Inf or Armor have. >(2) I've noticed that the U.S. has "mechanized infantry" divisions and the > USSR has "motorized rifle" divisions. Are these simply different names > for the same thing, or are there substantial differences between the > two? There are all kinds of differences (weapons and equipment, tactics and doctrine, personnel strengths, on and on), but I think I understand your question to be, "is there some _reason_ the names are different?" And the answer to that is (historians, correct me if I'm wrong here), no. The Soviets could very easily have named their units mech infantry instead of motorized rifle, or it could have been translated less literally to be the same, or _we_ could have called our units motorized rifles instead of mech infantry, I suppose. 8-) Both ride to battle in APCs, both dismount and/or fight mounted as the situation requires, both are a combination of squads of soldiers and fighting machines. In the US, "motorized" has come to mean any unit which fights out of unarmored or lightly-armored (usually wheeled) vehicles (like trucks, dune buggies, etc.). That isn't true of the Soviet army's terminology, so don't let our choice of words confuse you. John Pulliam
efrethei@blackbird.afit.af.mil (Erik J. Fretheim) (11/06/90)
From: efrethei@blackbird.afit.af.mil (Erik J. Fretheim) geoffm@EBay.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller) writes: >From: geoffm@EBay.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller) >A couple of questions: >(1) What exactly is "mechanized infantry?" Is it the same as standard > infantry, except for the fact that that the troops get to ride to > the battle in armored personnel carriers? Or are there tanks and/or > artillery that are integral with the infantry unit? >(2) I've noticed that the U.S. has "mechanized infantry" divisions and the > USSR has "motorized rifle" divisions. Are these simply different names > for the same thing, or are there substantial differences between the > two? Mechainzed infantry is indeed just plain old infantry which gets to ride into battle in an APC. The only problem is that once you convert to APC's you have to change your infantry squad's configuration so that it will fit into the APC you are using. This means dropping a few and changing others to drivers, gunners and such. All of this means that you get to the same place faster and with more fire power, but fewer people. Which of course can be a problem at times as the final assault and all that matters in the end is ground mounted anyway. In the US, the "mech's" are organized in units that include tanks, artillery and such which can keep up with the APC's This generally means self propelled guns. The tanks are there to provide some punch against the other guy's APC's and of course to take care of his tanks. To make sure this is all effective, things are mixed together at the battalion level into a combined arms team. Regular infantry (light) on the other hand doesn't get quit the mix. But they could, though ground pounders generally can't run as fast as an M-1, or even an M-60 for that matter. The difference between mech and motorized rifle is generally one of intention. The idea of a motorized rifle unit is to cover as much ground as possible in as short of a time as possible. They usually don't mix in combined arms at quite such a low level (regimental or higher). And aren't as concerned about firepower as with speed and overwhelming numbers. Of course all this is changing, but they will probably keep the motorized rifle designation for traditional reasons. We had our own motorized division - the 9th. It worried more about speed and high tech stuff too. It wasn't as heavy as the mech divisions, but could move faster and pack more firepower than the light divisions (one third less filling). But it committed the double sins of being unconventional and effective so it is being laid to rest. ejf >-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- >Geoff Miller + + + + + + + + Sun Microsystems >geoffm@purplehaze.sun.com + + + + + + + + Milpitas, California >-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- -- -- Erik J Fretheim efrethei@afit.af.mil AFIT/ENA Box 4151 (ATTN: CPT FRETHEIM) (513)255-5276 AVN785-5276 WPAFB, OH 45431 USA
scw@ollie.SEAS.UCLA.EDU (Stephen C. Woods) (11/13/90)
From: scw@ollie.SEAS.UCLA.EDU (Stephen C. Woods) }From: Allan Bourdius <ab3o+@andrew.cmu.edu> }With apologies, I made one slight ommission from the structure of a }Marine Division: }Marine Division: } }3 Infantry Regiments } 3 Infantry Battalions } 3 Rifle Companies, 1 Weapons Company, 1 Headquarters Company Uhm... As far as I can remember there have ALWAYS been 4 rifle companies in a Marine Rifle Battalion. This is the main reason that a Marine Bn. is larger than anyone else's. ABCD = 1st Bn Nth Marines EFGH = 2nd Bn Nth Marines IKLM = 3rd Bn Nth Marines Marine Arty. Regiments Have still more Battalions (At least 5 in 1942 there was a P Bty 5/11 ['Semper Fi, Mac' Henry Berry Berkley:1984(pp58)] armed with 105mm Howitzers) BTW: If someone refers to the Nth Marines they mean the Nth Marine Regiment, if you want to reference the various Divisions use Division. [EG 1st Bn 5th Marines is the First Battalion of the 5th Marine Regiment of the (WWI: Marine Brigade, WWI and later: 1st Marine Division 1MARDIV) The 5th Division is the 5th Marine Division (The reserve division, 26th, 27th, and 28th Marines ]. Marine units are typicaly only referenced to the Regiment level as Regiments are NOT moved around between Divisions (well hardly ever) So that E company of the 5th Marine regiment 1st Marine Division is invariably refered to as E/2/5 (pronounced: echo two five). (The hardly ever is the 4th Marines.) -- ----- Stephen C. Woods; UCLA SEASNET; 2567 BH;LA CA 90024; (213)-825-8614 UUCP: ...!{ibmsupt,hao!cepu}!ollie}!scw Internet:scw@SEAS.UCLA.EDU
major@uunet.UU.NET (Mike Schmitt) (11/14/90)
From: bcstec!shuksan!major@uunet.UU.NET (Mike Schmitt) In article <1990Nov4.210449.4182@cbnews.att.com>, geoffm@EBay.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller) writes: > > > From: geoffm@EBay.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller) > > > A couple of questions: > > > (1) What exactly is "mechanized infantry?" Is it the same as standard > infantry, except for the fact that that the troops get to ride to > the battle in armored personnel carriers? Or are there tanks and/or > artillery that are integral with the infantry unit? "Mechanized" usually refers to 'tracked vehicle'. Therefore, "Mechanized Infantry Divisions" have Bradleys', M113s, Tanks, and Self-Propelled Artillery. Integral? Depends. In 'garrison' the units are 'pure' - all infantry, all armor, all artillery, etc. For operations they are/can be 'tasked organized for combat' - meaning cross-attached for combat teams/task forces. > > (2) I've noticed that the U.S. has "mechanized infantry" divisions and the > USSR has "motorized rifle" divisions. Are these simply different names > for the same thing, or are there substantial differences between the > two? "Motorized" usually means 'wheeled vehicles'. Soviet 'motorized rifle battalions/regiments etc' meant that their APCs were usually 'wheeled' eg BTR60PB wheeled APC. With the introduction of the full-tracked BMP - the Soviet Motorized Rifle Division (MRD) would consist of two Motorized Rifle Regiments (BTR60), one Mechanized Rifle Regiment (BMP) and one Tank Regiment (T64). BTW: Any Soviet Army unit with the "Guards" title means that, that unit can trace it's lineage to the "Great Patriotic War" (WWII). eg, 8th Guards Army, 57th Guards Tank Division, etc............... mike schmitt
emery@linus.mitre.org (David Emery) (11/15/90)
From: emery@linus.mitre.org (David Emery) >From: bcstec!shuksan!major@uunet.UU.NET (Mike Schmitt) > "Motorized" usually means 'wheeled vehicles'. Soviet 'motorized > rifle battalions/regiments etc' meant that their APCs were usually > 'wheeled' eg BTR60PB wheeled APC. Nope. That's true in the U.S. Army, but not the Soviet Army. The term "Motor Rifle" is maintained as a tradition from WWII. (Sort of the way we still have a "Cavalry" division.) > With the introduction of the full-tracked BMP - the Soviet > Motorized Rifle Division (MRD) would consist of two Motorized > Rifle Regiments (BTR60), one Mechanized Rifle Regiment (BMP) and > one Tank Regiment (T64). The Soviets are gradually replacing their BTR-60's with BMP's. The ratio of BMP to BTR equipped regiments changes as more BMP's get fielded. Regardless of equipment, they're still "Motor Rifle Regiments". dave