[sci.military] Weapons for aircrews/military jets shaking the surrounding area

ehr@uncecs.edu (Ernest H. Robl) (11/07/90)

From: ehr@uncecs.edu (Ernest H. Robl)
Recent discussions in several areas -- and the fact that I'm 
contributing a number of photographs to an exhibit on the Vietnam war
being mounted at Duke University later this week -- have brought back
many memories.

In a recent response to one of my earlier postings on the SJAFB show,

swilliam@dtoa1.dt.navy.mil (Williams) writes ...

--- begin quote ---

I remember that when I was in college in St. Louis during early 1970's,
I noticed that the main runway (east-west) of the Lambert Field (now 
known as the St. Louis Lambert International Airport) had arresting 
wires across near its east end.  There was one main east-west runway
then.

The Lambert Field is the home of McDonnell Douglas Corporation, the
manufacturer of the F-4s and F-15s.

Boy, it was earthshaking experience every time a F-4 took off from the
main runway with afterburners on!  The glass panes (the main terminal
was beautifully designed with lots and lots of glass panes) would
vibrate a lot!


--- end quote ---


Speaking of F-4s making noise when taking off:  When I was stationed in
DaNang, Vietnam in 1970, the base I was at was downtown, several miles
from the airport/AFB out of which the AF and Marines flew (and which was
served by *Pan Am* R&R flights during the day.  The field had two wide
parallel runways.  When a major sortie was launched, two F-4s could
take off side-by-side on each runway.  As each group of four jets 
reached the half-way point on the runways, the next set of four would
begin to roll.  Sometimes in the early evenings, we could hear as
continuous roar from the base (several miles away) that lasted for several
minutes.

Unfortunately, I never got to fly with any of the F-4s, though I did
get to fly with an O-2 FAC (forward air controller) working an F-4
strike on a supply route.  I also flew with an O-1 spotter unit and
with the crews of a variety of large and small helicopters.

This brings me to the discussion of weapons for aircrews:  Most of
the pilots of the smaller aircraft carried both a .45 and -- if they
could get them -- the collapsible-stock version of the M16.  The
reason the shorter-stock version was so highly prized (I don't
remember what the official name is, but they were frequently called
LRRP guns) was not only that they were easier to get into (and out of!)
an aircraft with than the larger weapon, but also that they were 
fitted with a suppressor considerably heavier than the standard
flash suppressor on the M16.  (The weapons that I saw the AF police
carrying recently had the collapsible stock, but not the suppressor.)

Getting in and out of an O-1 or O-2 with a regular M16 was a giant
pain.  But, the condition on which many of the pilots were willing
to take me along (I was in a Public Information unit), were that I
bring all the weapons and ammo that I could carry.  So, on many
flights, I carried both a .45 and my M16.  The .45 I had to sign 
out from our supply sgt. -- since, being in a PR unit, I was not
really "authorized" to have one.  The supply sgt. always gave me
grief about the request.

On one recon flight out of Phu Bai on an LOH (light observation
helicopter), I carried, in addition to my two Nikons, my M16 and
about 300 rounds.  And, I wasn't the most heavily armed person
abourd.  The artillery spotter who sat next to me in the back seat
had brought a crate full of assorted grenades.

Fortunately, the only things I ever had to shoot with were the 
cameras, though some of the flights did get shot at.


So much for nostalgia.  But, if you'll permit just one more
comment on the original thread of military jets taking off from
civillian fields:

Back even earlier than when I was in the Army, when I was still a
student at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, I met
several of the NASA astronauts who came to the campus for 
astronomy training at the planetarium.  (I was photographer for the
campus newspaper.)  The astronauts would fly their jets into 
Raleigh-Durham airport and park them in the general aviation area.
The airport wasn't nearly as big or busy then as it is now.  (It's
a hub for American Airlines.)  

Sometimes I would go out to the airport to watch the astronauts take
off.  (Once the Eastern ground crew started one of the jets, but 
drove away in their tractor -- leaving the pilot in the cockpit, with
the chocks still under the wheels.  I was out on the ramp and ended
up pulling the chocks since there was no one else around.)

Anyway, these guys used to like to show off, and would go half way 
down the runway and then climb at the maximum angle -- which not 
only shook the terminal, but, based on what I heard, also left the
local air traffic controllers less than thrilled.  (I don't know if
the astronauts still come into RDU, but, if they do, they probably
have to pay a lot more attention to air traffic control now.)


Hope you didn't mind this bit of reminiscence. -- Ernest

-- 
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"My other computer is a Nikon N8008." -- Ernest H. Robl
Ernest H. Robl (ehr@ecsvax)  Durham, NC, USA  (919) 286-3845
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major@uunet.UU.NET (Mike Schmitt) (11/15/90)

From: bcstec!shuksan!major@uunet.UU.NET (Mike Schmitt)

In article <1990Nov7.035054.11964@cbnews.att.com>, ehr@uncecs.edu (Ernest H. Robl) writes:
 
> This brings me to the discussion of weapons for aircrews:  Most of
> the pilots of the smaller aircraft carried both a .45 and -- if they
> could get them -- the collapsible-stock version of the M16.  The
> reason the shorter-stock version was so highly prized (I don't
> remember what the official name is, but they were frequently called
> LRRP guns)......................

  I would guess that you're talking about the CAR-15, the 'issue' weapon
  for the Special Forces LRRPs.  I do know that often the pilots traded
  for them.  Near Danang was MACSOG's CCN (Command & Control - North) Base
  for the Recon Teams.  In addition to all the 'issue' weapons - many
  manufacturers simply 'gave' SF weapons to use and test for them.  In 
  the early stages of the program - some teams carried the Swedish K.
  Since there was normally a 'surplus' of a variety of weapons - it was
  simple to trade for other stuff.  After a totally annoying attack on the
  base camp which destroyed some team barracks - some 'surplus' weapons
  were traded to a nearby Marine construction Engineer unit - and they 
  built two new team barracks!  What a deal.   


  mike schmitt