ehr@uncecs.edu (Ernest H. Robl) (11/07/90)
From: ehr@uncecs.edu (Ernest H. Robl) Recent discussions in several areas -- and the fact that I'm contributing a number of photographs to an exhibit on the Vietnam war being mounted at Duke University later this week -- have brought back many memories. In a recent response to one of my earlier postings on the SJAFB show, swilliam@dtoa1.dt.navy.mil (Williams) writes ... --- begin quote --- I remember that when I was in college in St. Louis during early 1970's, I noticed that the main runway (east-west) of the Lambert Field (now known as the St. Louis Lambert International Airport) had arresting wires across near its east end. There was one main east-west runway then. The Lambert Field is the home of McDonnell Douglas Corporation, the manufacturer of the F-4s and F-15s. Boy, it was earthshaking experience every time a F-4 took off from the main runway with afterburners on! The glass panes (the main terminal was beautifully designed with lots and lots of glass panes) would vibrate a lot! --- end quote --- Speaking of F-4s making noise when taking off: When I was stationed in DaNang, Vietnam in 1970, the base I was at was downtown, several miles from the airport/AFB out of which the AF and Marines flew (and which was served by *Pan Am* R&R flights during the day. The field had two wide parallel runways. When a major sortie was launched, two F-4s could take off side-by-side on each runway. As each group of four jets reached the half-way point on the runways, the next set of four would begin to roll. Sometimes in the early evenings, we could hear as continuous roar from the base (several miles away) that lasted for several minutes. Unfortunately, I never got to fly with any of the F-4s, though I did get to fly with an O-2 FAC (forward air controller) working an F-4 strike on a supply route. I also flew with an O-1 spotter unit and with the crews of a variety of large and small helicopters. This brings me to the discussion of weapons for aircrews: Most of the pilots of the smaller aircraft carried both a .45 and -- if they could get them -- the collapsible-stock version of the M16. The reason the shorter-stock version was so highly prized (I don't remember what the official name is, but they were frequently called LRRP guns) was not only that they were easier to get into (and out of!) an aircraft with than the larger weapon, but also that they were fitted with a suppressor considerably heavier than the standard flash suppressor on the M16. (The weapons that I saw the AF police carrying recently had the collapsible stock, but not the suppressor.) Getting in and out of an O-1 or O-2 with a regular M16 was a giant pain. But, the condition on which many of the pilots were willing to take me along (I was in a Public Information unit), were that I bring all the weapons and ammo that I could carry. So, on many flights, I carried both a .45 and my M16. The .45 I had to sign out from our supply sgt. -- since, being in a PR unit, I was not really "authorized" to have one. The supply sgt. always gave me grief about the request. On one recon flight out of Phu Bai on an LOH (light observation helicopter), I carried, in addition to my two Nikons, my M16 and about 300 rounds. And, I wasn't the most heavily armed person abourd. The artillery spotter who sat next to me in the back seat had brought a crate full of assorted grenades. Fortunately, the only things I ever had to shoot with were the cameras, though some of the flights did get shot at. So much for nostalgia. But, if you'll permit just one more comment on the original thread of military jets taking off from civillian fields: Back even earlier than when I was in the Army, when I was still a student at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, I met several of the NASA astronauts who came to the campus for astronomy training at the planetarium. (I was photographer for the campus newspaper.) The astronauts would fly their jets into Raleigh-Durham airport and park them in the general aviation area. The airport wasn't nearly as big or busy then as it is now. (It's a hub for American Airlines.) Sometimes I would go out to the airport to watch the astronauts take off. (Once the Eastern ground crew started one of the jets, but drove away in their tractor -- leaving the pilot in the cockpit, with the chocks still under the wheels. I was out on the ramp and ended up pulling the chocks since there was no one else around.) Anyway, these guys used to like to show off, and would go half way down the runway and then climb at the maximum angle -- which not only shook the terminal, but, based on what I heard, also left the local air traffic controllers less than thrilled. (I don't know if the astronauts still come into RDU, but, if they do, they probably have to pay a lot more attention to air traffic control now.) Hope you didn't mind this bit of reminiscence. -- Ernest -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- "My other computer is a Nikon N8008." -- Ernest H. Robl Ernest H. Robl (ehr@ecsvax) Durham, NC, USA (919) 286-3845 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
major@uunet.UU.NET (Mike Schmitt) (11/15/90)
From: bcstec!shuksan!major@uunet.UU.NET (Mike Schmitt) In article <1990Nov7.035054.11964@cbnews.att.com>, ehr@uncecs.edu (Ernest H. Robl) writes: > This brings me to the discussion of weapons for aircrews: Most of > the pilots of the smaller aircraft carried both a .45 and -- if they > could get them -- the collapsible-stock version of the M16. The > reason the shorter-stock version was so highly prized (I don't > remember what the official name is, but they were frequently called > LRRP guns)...................... I would guess that you're talking about the CAR-15, the 'issue' weapon for the Special Forces LRRPs. I do know that often the pilots traded for them. Near Danang was MACSOG's CCN (Command & Control - North) Base for the Recon Teams. In addition to all the 'issue' weapons - many manufacturers simply 'gave' SF weapons to use and test for them. In the early stages of the program - some teams carried the Swedish K. Since there was normally a 'surplus' of a variety of weapons - it was simple to trade for other stuff. After a totally annoying attack on the base camp which destroyed some team barracks - some 'surplus' weapons were traded to a nearby Marine construction Engineer unit - and they built two new team barracks! What a deal. mike schmitt