richk@tera.com (Richard Korry) (11/16/90)
From: richk@tera.com (Richard Korry) Just a quick question. How do the following unit types differ? Cavalry and Armored Cavalry? Armored Cavalry and (just plain) Armor Airborne and Airborne (Air Assault) And also, does the 1st Air Cavalry that fought in VietNam still operate as "Air Cavalry" or is it now just "Cavalry". And will they get to ride camels this time (:-))? rich
jepullia@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (John Pulliam) (11/17/90)
From: jepullia@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (John Pulliam) In article <1990Nov16.052239.21890@cbnews.att.com> richk@tera.com (Richard Korry) writes: > >From: richk@tera.com (Richard Korry) >Just a quick question. How do the following unit types differ? I can have fun with this! Be warned that my answers are opinionated, but still based on fact. 8-) >Cavalry and Armored Cavalry? Cavalry is a state of mind (think of Jackson in the Valley in the Civil War); Armored Cavalry is a state of mind in metal coffins. 8-) >Armored Cavalry and (just plain) Armor Armored Cavalry as stated before; for definition of armored, just take away the mind. 8-) >Airborne and Airborne (Air Assault) Airborne is gung-ho, elite, tough as nails. Airborne (Air Assault) used to be that way, until it was taken off jump status. Now it still rides air taxis to the battle, but doesn't get to use parachutes. Airborne often called wind dummies (allusion to parachuting); Air Assault often called Dope on a Rope (allusion to rappelling out of helicopters). Both are smarter than armor (see above). 8-) Hope this helps (but kinda doubt it!) 8-) John Pulliam Airborne Combat Engineer (ACE)
rollhaus@dtoa3.dt.navy.mil (Rollhauser) (11/19/90)
From: rollhaus@dtoa3.dt.navy.mil (Rollhauser) In article <1990Nov16.052239.21890@cbnews.att.com> richk@tera.com (Richard Korry) writes: >From: richk@tera.com (Richard Korry) >Just a quick question. How do the following unit types differ? >Cavalry and Armored Cavalry? >Armored Cavalry and (just plain) Armor >Airborne and Airborne (Air Assault) >And also, does the 1st Air Cavalry that fought in VietNam still operate as >"Air Cavalry" or is it now just "Cavalry". And will they get to ride camels >this time (:-))? > rich Some answers. "Cavalry" is pretty much gone, although it exists as a concept of high mobility on the battlefield and as a general term combining both air and armored cavalry or in reference to the old horse cavalry. Armored Cavalry uses the M3 "Bradley" Cavalry Fighting Vehicle or a scout-version HMMWV to perform reconnaissance and security tasks. Some units also use motorcyles. (Just plain) armor is actual offensive firepower, using tanks -usually in conjunction with both armored cavalry and mechanized infantry- in the attack. Airborne units parachute into combat, although they are usually trained to use helicopters. Current US airborne forces include the 82nd Abn Division and the three battalions of the 75th Rangers, as well as a few units serving with the 6th Light Infantry Division and the 193rd Brigade (in Panama). Air Assault means the use of helicopters in the attack, without parachutists. Sometimes referred to as "Dopes on a Rope", the only actual air assault unit in our Army (and the world) is the 101st Abn Division (Air Assault) of WWII and Vietnam fame. Other light infantry formations and the 82nd also utilize air assault tactics on occaision. The 101 retains the "Airborne" title as a historical honor and includes nine infantry battalions and eleven aviation battalions, in addition to artillery and support units. The 1st Air Cavalry of Vietnam is no longer so named. It is now a two brigade armored force (with a round out brigade, the 155th, of the Mississippi Army National Guard, which has not yet been activated) and deployed to the middle east reinforced by the Tiger Brigade of the 2nd Armored Division. I very much doubt that they will ride camels on a regular basis, although some elements of the French Foriegn Legion often use them for patrol. Chuck
Adam Frankl <adam%rondo@rand.org> (11/20/90)
From: Adam Frankl <adam%rondo@rand.org> >>From: richk@tera.com (Richard Korry) >Just a quick question. How do the following unit types differ? >Cavalry and Armored Cavalry? >Armored Cavalry and (just plain) Armor >Airborne and Airborne (Air Assault) >And also, does the 1st Air Cavalry that fought in VietNam still operate as >"Air Cavalry" or is it now just "Cavalry". And will they get to ride camels >this time (:-))? > rich The differences between these units come from their missions and their equipment. The basic tasks of cavalry units are reconnaissance and security. Cavalry units are combined arms teams consisting of a combination of air cavalry and armored cavalry. For example, an ACR (Armored Cavalry Regiment) consists of 3 Armored Cavalry Squadrons + 1 Air Cavalry Squadron + misc support. Divisional Cavalry units usually consist of 1 squadron which has 2 armored cavalry troops + 2 air cavalry troops. Armored cavalry troops contain a mix of tanks and cavalry fighting vehicles. Air cavalry troops contain a mix of scout and attck helicopters. BTW, troop == company squadron == battalion regiment == brigade The 1st Cavalry division is not really "cav", it just maintains the historic name. It is organized as an armored division. The U.S. Army has three Armored Cavalry Regiments: the 3rd in Saudi Arabia, The 2nd on it way from Europe to Saudi Arabia, and the 11th in Germany. ACRs are usually attached directly to a corps HQ. Airborne units deploy by parachute. Air Assault units deploy by helicopter. Adam Frankl 1LT IN U.S. Army
major@uunet.UU.NET (Mike Schmitt) (11/29/90)
From: bcstec!shuksan!major@uunet.UU.NET (Mike Schmitt) > From: richk@tera.com (Richard Korry) > Just a quick question. How do the following unit types differ? > Cavalry and Armored Cavalry? > Armored Cavalry and (just plain) Armor > Airborne and Airborne (Air Assault) > And also, does the 1st Air Cavalry that fought in VietNam still operate as > "Air Cavalry" or is it now just "Cavalry". And will they get to ride camels > this time (:-))? > rich The 11th Air Assault Division was formed to test the 'new' concept of heliborne infantry assault tactics - along with the fledgling helicoptor tactics. I believe the Division was formed at Fort Benning, GA and tested some concepts during the Dominican Republic affair (1965?). I believe that, early on, some elements even deployed to Vietnam for 'testing'. (I know that because my brother was a UH-1 helicoptor door gunner with the 11th Air Assault Div - and 'deployed' three separate times to Vietnam.) They had a unique 'badge' - a shield with wings (like a pilot's') with crossed rifles and lightning bolts. However, once the 'concept' met with approval of the Department of the Army - it was decided to deploy the division as the 1st Cavalry Division (Airmobile). Therefore, the 11th Air Assault Div was redisignated the 1st Cav Div and was the first Army division to deploy to Vietnam. The reason d'entendre that the 1st Cavalry was designated the first to deploy to Vietnam stems from an action in the Korean war that brought discredit to the entire unit. If you recall the divisional patch of the 1st Cav - big bright yellow background - black diagonal bar - black silhouette of a horse head - in barracks language it was said "the horse they never rode, the stream they never crossed, yellow is the color of the outfit!" During a period of action in Korea the 1st Cav Div was assigned the task to protect a sensitive radio intercept battalion - the 303d Signal Security Battalion - the 1st Cav got word of an impending Chinese attack the next morning and pulled back to a "better defensive position" but neglected to inform the Radio Intercept Battalion. The next morning found the 303d completely surrounded by Chinese. Only 6 survivors of that Battalion made it back to friendly lines. Based on that incident the 1st Cav "lost it's colors, no one was allowed to wear the 1st Cav patch as a Korean combat patch - and the 1st Cav was to remain in Korea - not able to return to the United States until it "won it's colors back in battle." Now it may seem that this is just 'barracks-legend' but this was alluded to by three separate sources: The first was my basic training drill sergeant (1961) who had served with the 1st Cav in Korea and mentioned something about this incident. The second was at Fort Devens Mass in 1962, one of my instructors was a Master Sergeant who wore the I Corps patch for combat in Korea - one of the survivors of the 303d Battalion. Another 'fact' that may support this is that when I was assigned to the 303d (now) ASA Battalion in 1965 (Fort Wolters, Texas) we wore the old 'toilet seat' Meritorious Unit Citation (on our lower sleeve) and the Battalion Sergeant Major told me the 303d won the MUC 'cause it was almost wiped out in Korea. --------------------- In Vietnam - the 1st Cav (First Team) certainly won its colors many times over and any "Sky Trooper" should be proud to wear the patch. mike schmitt