hakanson@orstcs.UUCP (04/11/84)
< betcha can't eat just one >
In reference to ARCO Graphite motor oil clogging up engine passages:
Some time ago I read an article (I think in Popular Science, but I'm
not sure) where they did some research into synthetic and synthetic-blend
motor oils, including the aforementioned product. It turned out they
weren't able to find any documented cases of ARCO Graphite motor oil
causing engine damage -- by clogging oil passages or otherwise. It seems
its one of those cases (pun unintended) of many people having heard of
someone who knew someone whose engine had its oil passages clogged with
graphite, but nobody could be found who actually had the problem.
So, you ask, why isn't ARCO Graphite available anymore? According to
the article, ARCO couldn't sell it because it was too expensive and had
an undeserved bad reputation.
As a disclaimer, I do not now use and have never knowingly used an ARCO
motor oil of any kind in any of my vehicles. (Pennzoil PZL 10W-40 until
lately when, because my engine is getting up in miles and slightly down in
oil pressure, I switched to Pennzoil 20W-50 "GT-Performance" motor oil.)
Marion Hakanson CSnet: hakanson@oregon-state
UUCP : {hp-pcd,tektronix}!orstcs!hakansontrq@astrovax.UUCP (Thomas R. Quinn) (04/23/84)
I happened to read the back of a can of Liquid Wrench and noticed a
suggestion their to put about 8 oz. of the stuff in your crankcase to
quiet noisy valves. Now I have a '71 Plymouth with a V-8 and valves
that clatter like mad, so this is of interest. However, I am hesitant
about dumping just anything into my crankcase. Any recommendations?
--
Tom Quinn Princeton University, Astrophysics
{allegra,akgua,burl,cbosgd,decvax,ihnp4,kpno,princeton,vax135}!astrovax!trqdave@infopro.UUCP (David Fiedler) (04/24/84)
<chomp!>
Putting Liquid Wrench (a solvent) in your engine oil sounds to me a bit
like sugar in the gas tank. Any valve quieting this might accomplish would
probably be as a result of stopping the engine for good.
Caveat: for all I know, EVERYONE put Liquid Wrench in their oil to quiet
their valves. But it just don't sound right to me. There are, however,
commercial products for this purpose (which I also have no experience
with). Any chemists out there?
--
"That's the biz, sweetheart..."
Dave Fiedler
{harpo,astrovax,philabs}!infopro!davebrad@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Brad Spear) (04/25/84)
In article <309@astrovax.UUCP> trq@astrovax.UUCP writes: >I happened to read the back of a can of Liquid Wrench and noticed a >suggestion their to put about 8 oz. of the stuff in your crankcase to >quiet noisy valves. Now I have a '71 Plymouth with a V-8 and valves >that clatter like mad, so this is of interest. However, I am hesitant >about dumping just anything into my crankcase. Good that you are hesitant. The reason the valves clatter is because they need to be adjusted. If you are mechanically minded, it is easy to do. You will also probably improve the performance of the engine, since it is not operating correctly now. If the adjustment doesn't work, it is a problem that will probably require more work, and Liquid Wrench will just mask it. The only time I would dump anything like Liquid Wrench into my crankcase is if I only wanted the engine for a short while, and was going to subsequently junk it. (Or if I wanted to sell a lemon :-)) Brad Spear sdcrdcf!brad
seifert@ihuxl.UUCP (D.A. Seifert) (04/26/84)
> Liquid wrench contains kerosine, benzene, and graphite. None of these > will particularly harm your engine. Oh yeah? Ever heard of the infamous "ARCO Graphite" motor oil? It did a nice job of clogging up oil passages. Of course *real* engines have solid lifters! (honorary exception for the Porsche 928) -- _____ /_____\ That auto-crossing beagle, /_______\ Snoopy |___| BMWCCA, Windy City Chapter ____|___|_____ ihnp4!ihuxl!seifert
pmk@spuxll.UUCP (04/27/84)
I think that some people are misinformed about Chrysler product V-8's and the adjustment of their valve train. The majority of Chrysler valve trains are of the non-adjustable hydraulic type. The only 2 adjustable valve trains for V-8 Chryslers that come to mind are the mid to late 1960's 273 high performance V-8 and the pre 1970 426 Hemi. These 2 are fully adjustable solid lifter engines which require frequent adjustment if you would like to keep you camshaft around for awhile. There might be many adjustable valve trains in the pre mid-sixties time frame, but I make no claims to know anything of them. Since as long as I can remenber, Chrysler has used the solid lifter setup in their slant-6. I think that the confusion may stem from the fact that Chevrolet valves are adjustable to some extent, and owners of these cars assume that all manufacturers have this setup. Ford used to use it but switched to what they call positive stop rocker arms; you simply tighten the nut down to the proper torque specifications and that is it. This might be good for the person in the factory building it but leaves very little room for adjust- ment. As a consoloation, GM doesn't put drain plugs in their torque converters and most garages charge you for a full fluid change when they only drain the pan. Chrysler, unlike Ford nad Chevy, uses shaft mounted rocker arms instead of stud mounted rocker arms. When you have this arrangement the rocker arms are totally different when they are adjustable. The end of the rocker arm that touches the valve has a screw in it to adjust for clearance. For you Ford owners that would like adjustable valve trains there are 2 possibilities. The first one is the less expensive approach although the second method is probably better. Go to any speed shop and ask for what are often referred to as 'Poly Locks'. These go on in place of the nut that holds the rocker arm on the stud and are adjustable. The best method for getting adjustable rocker arms is to remove the heads and send them to a machine shop to have them drilled and tapped for threaded studs. This is the best setup and came on many of the sixties and seventies High performance engines from Ford and Chevy. All run of the mill Chevys and Fords use pressed in studs which can easily be pulled out by a solid lifter engine with heavy duty valve springs. As an aside to my posting, some people have been asking about foreign car automatics. I'm not sure any more but several years ago, I worked for a transmission shop. Foreign cars of those days, especially Datsuns and Toyotas, used a transmission built by Borg Warner. This transmission was extremely outdated and was also used by AMC before 1970 or so. AMC then started using the Chrysler Torqueflite, in my opinion the 2nd best transmission, second only to the Ford C-6. No flames from Chrysler lovers, as I will route then to /dev/null. The C-6 and Torqueflite transmissions are in a class all by themselves, way above the C-4, Turbo 400, and the ughh!!!! Turbos 350 and 200. But I stray from my point. The Borg Warner trans is a single planetary transmission as compared to the dual planetary, common sun gear transmissions used in most American automobiles the exception being the Ford Cast Iron Cruisomatic, sometimes referred to as the MX or FMX transmission. I am currently the unhappy owner of a FMX and rather than get rid of the car, which I happen to love otherwise, (a 1972 Mustang Mach I) I am going to convert to a manual trans. For those of you who prefer the automatic a C-6 will fit behind most engines with some modifications. Anyone who is interested in either method of conversion, conatct me and I will give details, but again I wander. If you have to buy a foreign car save yourself some trouble and if the automatic is indeed the Borg Warner type, either learn how to drive a stick, go to another foreign car, or seriously consider buying an American car. Just make sure that if GM makes it, that the Turbo 200 is not in it. One more final note: change the fluid in the transmission at least every other year, if not every year. The transmission you save may be your own. You don't know how many times I took apart a transmission and found the plug to the filler pipe hole that was knocked in at the factory, still in there. Meanwhile, there was some jack*ss out front, scratching his/her head and wondering why the transmission was dead on their 4 year old car. Treat your car right and it will treat you right. Long live the 'Pony' cars. P Kelliher At&T-ISL S. Plainfield, NJ
emma@uw-june (Joe Pfeiffer) (04/30/84)
I don't have a can in front of me, but I believe their specific recommendation is to put the can in about 100 or so miles before changing the oil. I'd guess that this could clean off various depsosits of crud, and sounds reasonable. Not that I've ever had the courage to actually try it! Just by the way, the best way to quiet noisy valves is to adjust valve lash or replace lifters. -Joe P.
richard@sequent.UUCP (05/02/84)
I recently read in an advice column that the detergent-additives for oils are best used shortly before changing your oil - long enough to clean it up, but you want to get the very dirty oil out soon. The same article said that if that didn't do the job, empty your crankcase, fill it with kerosene, run it very a short period, and then put in fresh oil. I don't recall how long the period was, whether in miles or minutes, but you certainly wouldn't want it there long. Haven't tried it. Hope I never have to. ___________________________________________________________________________ The preceding should not to be construed as the statement or opinion of the employers or associates of the author. It is solely the belief... from the confused and bleeding fingertips of ...!sequent!richard
berry@zinfandel.UUCP (05/02/84)
#R:astrovax:-30900:zinfandel:3200061:000:1501 zinfandel!berry Apr 27 08:25:00 1984 In article <309@astrovax.UUCP> trq@astrovax.UUCP writes: >Now I have a '71 Plymouth with a V-8 and valves >that clatter like mad... Then Brad Spear (sdcrdcf!brad) replies: >The reason the valves clatter is because they >need to be adjusted. Well, in a '71 Plymouth V-8 I would guess that he has hydraulic valve lifters, whose sole purpose in life is to automatically adjust your valves. You CAN'T adjust them yourself. They work (more or less) by building a column of (essentially incompressible) engine oil in a cylinder inside the lifter during the part of the stroke when there is no pressure on them. When the cam starts to push up, the little valves close off, and you get a zero-lash valve train. If their oil passages and valves clog up with gunk, the valves will clatter. Now the lifters need to be cleaned out. You can either try the special gunk in the oil, which may break loose grime and sludge and make the problem WORSE, or you can remove the lifters and clean them by hand. In some engines, the lifters can be extracted without dismantling the entire engine if you have a special tool, but you usually need to pull the heads. Unless you are a REALLY slick mechanic (If so, why are you still reading this?) I would guess it to be an all-Saturday job. My personal experience is mostly on English cars with solid lifters, so If I screwed up the explanation, don't flame, just correct me. Berry Kercheval Zehntel Inc. (ihnp4!zehntel!zinfandel!berry) (415)932-6900
brad@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Brad Spear) (05/03/84)
With regards to a letter about putting Liquid Wrench in the crankcase, a few replies have been written that the valve lifters on the '71 Plymouth are hydraulic, and can't be adjusted. Well, I looked in my trusty MOTOR manual, and, gee wilikers, they're right. Sorry about my ignorance, I had never heard of that, I had assumed that all valve trains, with hydraulic or solid lifters, had to be adjusted. My '70 Chevelle has hydraulic lifters, and the valve train must be adjusted for 0 lash plus one turn, to put a preload on the lifter. Since the Plymouth owner can't adjust them, and considering the age of the car (if the cam and lifters are are original) he might consider having them replaced and the cam checked. How many miles have they got? I still think it's a bad idea to put 'cutting' additives like Liquid Wrench in the engine for any significant length of time, though there are some additives that are specifically meant for that purpose, but for very short periods, like 5 minutes of idling. Berry Kercheval said that lifters can be cleaned by hand. That would work, you just have to be careful with them. I prefer replacing them entirely, they do wear, which can upset things and make the engine more inefficent than necessary. Besides, they aren't all THAT expensive. Brad Spear sdcrdcf!brad