kiravuo@hila.hut.fi (Timo Kiravuo) (12/11/90)
From: kiravuo@hila.hut.fi (Timo Kiravuo) In article <1990Dec6.021948.19031@cbnews.att.com> ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Nur Iskandar Taib) writes: >The most maligned fighter plane during the second World War was >probably the Brewster Buf- falo. But when some were shipped to >Finland, the Finns raved over them. Nothing like a visit to your friendly library. I found a biography of captain Hasse Wind, our top ace in WWII (75 drops). What follows is taken from the book (Hasse Wind, Havittajalentaja by Borje Sjogren) and badly translated by me. Factory designation B-239, Navy designation F2A-1. Navy opted for the F2A-2 version, so the earlier version was "left over" and Finland got them pretty cheap. That was during the Winter War, when Finland was desperate for anything to fight with. The export version with a 950 Hp engine had top speed of 478 km/h, practical travel speed of 380 km/h. From ground to 3000 m took 4 min 12 s, to 5000 m 7 min 10 s. Max height 9900 m, max flight time 4 h. 1 7,62 mm and 3 12,7mm machine guns. We got 44 of those. The BW (Finnish designation) could stay up for a long time, was fast in 1941 and could turn very well. It was also an easy plane to take off and land, and the carriage was very wide. Visibility from the cockpit was good, too. The plane was also very reliable, unlike Soviet planes. The Brewsters did not came in time for Winter War, but they were used in the second war until the end. When the second war started in 1941, they were better than anything the Soviets had. Max load: pilot, two mechanics, one german shephard and baggage. The plane overshoot in landing, but considering that this was a single-seat fighter, the load was quite impressive. The big hull had plenty of room. During transfer flights mechanics used to fly officially behind the pilot. The plane BW-393 got 41 drops, 29 by Hasse Wind. Wind supposes this is some kind of record for a single plane. Hasse Wind dropped some Hurricanes and Spitfires while flying Brewster, too. About the Messerschmitt Bf 109G-2 Wind says that when in air the plane was OK, but taking of and landing were difficult. the torque of the big propellor would try to twist the plane and the narrow carriage did not support enough. Also there was only about 6 cm of space between the propellor and ground when rolling. About pilots. Most important for survival and performance are ability to flight the "wrong" way and ability to shoot (and hit target). Baron Manfred von Richthofen used to break planes in take-offs and landings. As I read the book, it seemed to me that Finnish pilots were individuals who worked as a team. Like good football players. For example some pilots had their machineguns adjusted so that they met at 150 m front of the plane. Wind's aiming point was only 30 m in front of the plane. The stories about Wind are pretty wild, even when told by others and backed up fy official documents. Once he had a Mig-3 in his tail. He dived to ground and pulled back as late as possible. The Mig had a larger turning radius and bit dust. Another time his group was fighting with Soviet fighters, while he noticed the main enemy, eight heavily armored Il-2 attack planes, below. Wind disengaged and somehow got himself inside the Il-2 formation unnoticed and dropped three planes before the Soviets noticed anything. This while flying the old Brewster. Wind's style was to go straight for the enemy. Unlike flight master Eino Juutilainen, who used to wait for the right moment and then hit. Juutilainen had 74 drops in WWII. The book also mentions that while in the USA an ace meant at least five drops, in the Soviet Union it was nine drops and in most other countries the term was not used at all. Also when in the west partial drops were counted, the Soviets could give one drop for each pilot in the group for one plane. And in the latter part of the war Germans would count one drop for each engine, so that a bomber might mean four drops. -------------------- About terminology in sci.military in general. Be advised that Russia and Soviet Union are different things. As were Nazis and Germans in WWII. Try calling an Estonian a Russian, its like calling a Scot English. -- Timo Kiravuo, kiravuo@hut.fi Helsinki University of Technology, Computer Center, Finland
henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) (12/12/90)
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) >From: kiravuo@hila.hut.fi (Timo Kiravuo) >... some pilots had their machineguns adjusted so that they >met at 150 m front of the plane. Wind's aiming point was only 30 >m in front of the plane. Another example of this sort of thing is Erich Hartmann's gunnery philosophy (Hartmann, at 352 kills, being top ace of all time): "I opened fire only when the whole windshield was black with the enemy... at minimum range... it doesn't matter what your angle is to him or whether you are in a turn or any other maneuver..." -- "The average pointer, statistically, |Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology points somewhere in X." -Hugh Redelmeier| henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry
fiddler@Eng.Sun.COM (Steve Hix) (12/12/90)
From: fiddler@Eng.Sun.COM (Steve Hix) > From: kiravuo@hila.hut.fi (Timo Kiravuo) > > biography of captain Hasse Wind, our top ace in WWII (75 drops). > What follows is taken from the book (Hasse Wind, Havittajalentaja > by Borje Sjogren) and badly translated by me. > [...] > The [Brewster Buffalo] BW-393 got 41 drops, 29 by Hasse Wind. > Hasse Wind dropped some Hurricanes and Spitfires while flying > Brewster, too. ??!! Who was flying Hurricanes and Spitfires where a Finn would have a shot at them? > Wind's style was to go straight for the enemy. Unlike flight > master Eino Juutilainen, who used to wait for the right moment > and then hit. Juutilainen had 74 drops in WWII. Another Finnish pilot that you might find a book about/by would be Eino Luukkanen ("Fighter Over Finland"). I don't have it, just a cited reference in another book. He flew the Buffalo, too. -- ------------ The only drawback with morning is that it comes at such an inconvenient time of day. ------------
silber@sunb3.cs.uiuc.edu (Ami Silberman) (12/13/90)
From: silber@sunb3.cs.uiuc.edu (Ami Silberman) In article <1990Dec11.014719.25687@cbnews.att.com> kiravuo@hila.hut.fi (Timo Kiravuo) writes: > >About the Messerschmitt Bf 109G-2 Wind says that when in air the >plane was OK, but taking of and landing were difficult. the >torque of the big propellor would try to twist the plane and the >narrow carriage did not support enough. Also there was only about >6 cm of space between the propellor and ground when rolling. > After the war, the Israeli's flew some Bf 109s with the same engine as the Ju88. They lost most of them due to nosing over or other ground accidents. > >The book also mentions that while in the USA an ace meant at >least five drops, in the Soviet Union it was nine drops and in >most other countries the term was not used at all. Also when in >the west partial drops were counted, the Soviets could give one >drop for each pilot in the group for one plane. And in the latter >part of the war Germans would count one drop for each engine, so >that a bomber might mean four drops. > In the US, I believe that you could get kills for planes on the ground. (In WWI, some pilots would wait until enemy planes were just barely airborne during attacks vs. airstrips in order to gain the kill.) I know of a case where some Americans got a kill for a B-17, it had been forced down in North Africa and they were denying it to the enemy. The Germans required 10 kills. It is a common misconception that muti-engine planes counted as multiple kills. According to Adolf Galland (in his book, The First and the Last, I believe) there was a points system for medals. So many points and a Knights cross, so many more and a Knights cross 1st class etc. ami silberman
ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Nur Iskandar Taib) (12/17/90)
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Nur Iskandar Taib) >denying it to the enemy. The Germans required 10 kills. >It is a common misconception that muti-engine planes counted as >multiple kills. According to Adolf Galland (in his book, The First >and the Last, I believe) there was a points system for medals. >So many points and a Knights cross, so many more and a Knights cross >1st class etc. The German term was "expert". I'm not sure whether there was a minimum number of kills required for achieving expert status, but the number of kills achieved was important to ones' standing. In a two ship "rotte", the leader would be the one with more kills to his credit. So you'd see interesting peck- ing orders in the air. Geschwader and staffel commanders often flew as wingmen to pilots with lesser rank. Officers often flew as wingmen to sergeants. The German system for confirming kills was supposedly every bit as stringent as anyone elses'. The main rea- son they (and Japanese) experts racked up huge scores was due to their having to fly until the war was over or they got killed, whichever came first. Most were shot down multiple times (Galland was shot down twice in one day, but scored three kills). Ameri- can fighter pilots (at least in Europe) were transferred home after 200 combat flying hours, British aces were simply promoted to desk jobs after a year or three of combat. German airmen (at least on the Eastern front) mostly flew tactical support of ground troops (or interdiction of the Russian counterpart) and thus flew sorties continuously. British and American airmen rarely flew this inten- sively. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Iskandar Taib | The only thing worse than Peach ala Internet: NTAIB@AQUA.UCS.INDIANA.EDU | Frog is Frog ala Peach Bitnet: NTAIB@IUBACS !
greg@uunet.UU.NET (Greg Fabian) (12/17/90)
From: cti1!greg@uunet.UU.NET (Greg Fabian) According to a Nova program about fighter aircraft technology the other day, about 85% of the fighter aircraft shot down were not involved in dogfights but were shot-up during a single high-speed, i.e., an arial strafing run. In effect, most pilots never saw it comming. It seems that shooting up the enemy aircraft from rudder to spinner in one pass at high speed is, by far, the most successful tactic. -- Greg Fabian ////////////////////////////////////|\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ CTI (703) 685-5400 | 2121 Crystal Drive | When the going gets weird Suite 103 | the weird turn pro Arlington, VA 22202 greg@cti.com | - Hunter S. Thompson \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\|////////////////////////////////////
kiravuo@hila.hut.fi (Timo Kiravuo) (12/17/90)
From: kiravuo@hila.hut.fi (Timo Kiravuo) In article <1990Dec12.031421.10406@cbnews.att.com> fiddler@Eng.Sun.COM (Steve Hix) writes: >??!! Who was flying Hurricanes and Spitfires where a Finn would >have a shot at them? The Soviets, of course. According to Risto Pajari's "Jatkosota ilmassa" Soviet Union received planes from the Allies as follows, copied verbatim: P-39 Airacobra 5 700 P-63 Kingcobra 2 400 P-40 Tomahawk Warhawk 2 400 P-47 Thunderbolt 195 Hurricane 2 950 Spitfire 1 330 Borje Sjogren's "Hasse Wind, Havittajalentaja" quotes about the same numbers. The latter book also mentions that most of the planes were stored for an invasion to Japan and never used. >Another Finnish pilot that you might find a book about/by would >be Eino Luukkanen ("Fighter Over Finland"). I don't have it, just He is the third ranking Finnish ace with 54 drops. I'll see what the local library has to offer. -- Timo Kiravuo, kiravuo@hut.fi Helsinki University of Technology, Computer Center, Finland
major@uunet.UU.NET (Mike Schmitt) (12/19/90)
From: bcstec!shuksan!major@uunet.UU.NET (Mike Schmitt) > From: cti1!greg@uunet.UU.NET (Greg Fabian) > > According to a Nova program about fighter aircraft technology the other > day, about 85% of the fighter aircraft shot down were not involved in > dogfights but were shot-up during a single high-speed, i.e., an arial > strafing run. In effect, most pilots never saw it comming. It seems > that shooting up the enemy aircraft from rudder to spinner in one pass > at high speed is, by far, the most successful tactic. Pilots call that the "golden B.B." - on the other hand - ask them why they would fly through all that - and you get, "Big sky - little bullet!" mike schmitt
jfb@ihlpm.att.com (Joseph F Baugher) (12/21/90)
From: jfb@ihlpm.att.com (Joseph F Baugher) I have always been intrigued by the Brewster Buffalo. The recent discussion of this fighter piqued my interest once again, and I went back through my references. Here is what I came up with. It seems that the Brewster has undesevedly gotten a bad rap. In British, Dutch, and American service it was a real dog, but, judged by its service with Finland it must be considered one of the most outstanding fighters of the Second World War! The Brewster Buffalo originated in a 1935 US Navy requirement for a carrier fighter intended to replace the Grumman F3F biplane. This Navy requirement called for a plane capable of 300 mph, and three companies entered the competition--Grumman, Seversky, and Brewster. Grumman proposed yet another biplane fighter, designated XF4F-1, which was basically an uprated F3F. Seversky proposed a navalized version of its P-35 Army fighter, designated XFN-1. The Brewster Aeronautical Corporation of Queens, New York (located just across the East River from Manhattan) submitted a proposal for an original mid-wing monoplane which was given the company designation of Model B-139. The Model B-139 was a cantilever, mid wing monoplane with a stubby, all-metal fuselage and a riveted metal skin for the fuselage and the wings. Only the ailerons, rudder, and flaps were fabric covered. The cockpit was fully enclosed, and the landing gear was fully retractable. The gear leg, when retracted, fitted flush into a bay on the underside of the wing, while the shock absorber, axle and tire retracted into a wheel well in the fuselage underside. The original design features a simple open ring cowling around the engine, which was to be either a Wright XR-1690-02 or Pratt and Whitney XR-1535-92 driving a variable pitch propellor. Armament was specified as one 0.30 cal and one 0.50 cal machine gun mounted in the top of the engine cowling, synchronized to fire through the propellor arc. However, provisions were made for an additional 0.50 cal machine gun in each of the wings. A fully-retractable tail hook was installed at the extreme rear of the fuselage. An unusual feature was a ventral window in the fuselage belly, providing the pilot with some degree of a downward view. In February 1936, the Navy ordered a prototype of the XF4F-1 from Grumman, and in June of that year ordered one prototype from Brewster. It was given the designation XF2A-1 and assigned the BuNo of 0451. During development, Brewster engineers concluded that the original design would be underpowered, and decided to switch engines to the 950 hp Wright R-1820-22 Cyclone. The XF2A flew for the first time in December 2, 1937, and was turned over to the Navy in January of 1938. The Navy found the performance to be disappointing and suggested some changes; an improvement in streamlining, a redesign of the engine cowling, and a reconfiguration of the carburetor and oil cooler air intakes. The prototype was duly modified, and performance improved significantly; 304 mph at 16,000 feet, an initial climb rate of 2750 feet per minute, and a range of 1000 miles. In June of 1938, the US Navy ordered a first production run of 54 aircraft, under the designation F2A-1 (BuNos 1386-1439). Early in 1939, the XF2A-1 was returned to Brewster for installation of a more powerful 1200 hp Wright R-1820-40 Cyclone engine. In addition, the cowling was completely redesigned and the fuselage was shortened by 5 inches forward of the wing. Redesignated XF2A-2, the prototype demonstrated a marked increase in performance--maximum speed was now 340 mph and maximum range was 1600 miles. Somewhat later in the year, a revised fin with greater area replaced the original elliptical fin. Production F2A-1s were powered by a 940 hp Wright R-1830-34 engine, and incorporated several improvements. A revised windscreen and canopy were installed, offering improved vision and head room. A telescopic gun sight was fitted. The radio mast was moved from the port side of the fuselage to the starboard side, and the wingtips were slightly reconfigured. The ventral window was enlarged. The first two F2A-1s were completed with the elliptical tailfin of the prototype, but all subsequent aircraft switched to a redesigned triangular fin with a straight leading edge which faired into the fuselage just behind the canopy. The Brewster company had the habit of promising more than it could deliver, and the delivery dates for the F2A-1 to the Navy began to slip. The Navy expected first delivery during May of 1939, but only one was ready by June of 1939. It was put on display at the World's Fair in New York, along with some other American military aircraft. Delays continued, and by November 1939 only 5 had been delivered. In the meantime, the Navy had found a problem with excessive carbon monoxide levels in the cockpit, which required further modifications at the factory. By the end of 1939, 11 F2A-1s had reached the Navy, and 9 were assigned to Fighting Squadron Three (VF-3 aboard the USS Saratoga. Navy plans to acquire more were interrupted when it was decided to divert the remaining F2A-1 production lot to Finland. The F2A-1 had a maximum speed of 311 mph at 18,000 feet, and a maximum speed of 271 mph down on the deck. Initial climb rate was 3060 ft/min, and service ceiling was 32,500 feet. Maximum range was 1550 miles, but normal range was about 1000 miles. Empty weight was 3785 pounds, and maximum takeoff weight was 5370 lbs. During 1940, the Navy decided to install the optional 0.50 cal guns in the wings of its F2A-1s, and immediately started to encounter landing gear failures because of the additional weight. Later that year, VF-3 traded in its F2A-1s for more powerful F2A-2s, and the F2A-1s were returned to Brewster for modifications. Eight of them were remanufactured to F2A-2 standards, and were reissued to VS-201 for service aboard the escort carrier USS Long Island. By mid 1941, only one of these was left (BuAer 1393), and it remained with a training squadron until 1944. The F2A-1s diverted to Finland were given the company designation B-239. The naval equipment (tailhook, life raft, catapult harness) was removed, and the telescopic sight was replaced by a simple bead and sight arrangement. Armament consisted of one 0.30 cal and one 0.50 cal machine gun in the cowling, plus two 0.50 cal machine guns in the wings. The engine was replaced by an export-approved 950 hp Wright R-1820-G5 radial Maximum speed was 297 mph at 15,580 feet and service ceiling was 32,500 feet. Empty weight was 3900 pounds, and maximum weight was 5820 pounds. The B-239s were transferred to Finland via Sweden. Only six examples had reached Finland by the time that the Russo-Finnish "Winter War" ended on March 3, 1940. During the uneasy peace that followed, Finnish personnel made a number of modifications, including an armored headrest and seat back, plus a reflector gunsight in place of the original bead and ring. Experiments were made with ski landing gear for operations from snow-covered fields. However, the skis severly degraded performance and were rarely used operationally. A total of 44 B-239s reached Finland, and they were assigned the Finnish serial numbers BW-351 through BW-394. The B-239s were assigned to LeLv 24, 32 being used and the rest held in reserve. Finland went to war against Russia again on June 25, 1941, this time allied with Germany. During the first few months, the Brewsters were able to maintain air superiority over the northern front. The Finns found the Brewster to be very maneuverable at low level. B-239s encountered LaGG-3s, Yak-1s, and Yak-7s, as well as Lend-Lease Hurricanes, P-40s and P-39s. The highest-scoring B-239 ace was Hans Wind, who got 39 of his 75 kills flying the B-239. Eino Luukainen scored 34 of his 94 kills with the Brewster. As the war with Russia wore on, maintenance of the Finnish B-239s became an increasing problem, since Finland was now allied with Germany and no longer had access to American spare parts. In an attempt to overcome these problems, at least six B-239s were fitted with captured Russian M-63 radials (these were license-built versions of the Wright Cyclone). The Finnish state aircraft factory also began the development of a homebuilt version of the B-239, this with plywood wings. However, only one prototype was built. In 1944, LeLv 24 traded in its surviving B-239s for Messerschmitt Bf 109G-2s. These B-239s were transferred to HLeLv 26. Kills continued to be scored, but by this time the Soviets had deployed large numbers of high-performance fighters and losses of B-239s began to mount. HLeLv 26 continued to operate its B-239s until the end, when an armistice was signed with the Soviets on September 4, 1944. Finland then switched sides and began to drive German forces out of Finnish territory. The Brewsters were flown against retreating German forces in Lapland, scoring several kills against Ju-87 Stukas. The B-239 is credited with 496 kills, against 19 losses, for a victory ratio of 26 to 1. Finnish air force records credit 41 kills to a SINGLE B-239 before it was shot down. Is there any other fighter aircraft in history which has a record as good as this? [more to follow in later installments] References: The American Fighter, Enzo Angelucci and Peter Bowers, Orion, 1985. F2A Buffalo in action, Jim Maas, Squadron/Signal Publications, Inc, 1987. Joe Baugher *************************************** AT&T Bell Laboratories * "Moriarty is alive, and in this * 200 Park Plaza * very city! I'll stake my * Naperville, Illinois 60566-7050 * reptuation on it, Watson!" * (708) 713 4548 *************************************** jfb200@cbnewsd.att.com ihlpm!jfb Who, me? Speak for AT&T? Surely you jest!