jvz@ccird1.cci.com (John V. Zambito) (12/13/90)
From: jvz@ccird1.cci.com (John V. Zambito) I just bought a book called _The complete book on US firepower_. In the aircraft carrier section, the author says runways have been angled ever since the British did research and found them to be better than straight ones. Does anybody have any more information. It seems that a pilot would want his flight path parallel with the direction of the ship. This would suggest that the runway be in this direction also.
anthony@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au (Anthony Lee) (12/15/90)
From: anthony@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au (Anthony Lee) In <1990Dec13.033642.19678@cbnews.att.com> jvz@ccird1.cci.com (John V. Zambito) writes: >From: jvz@ccird1.cci.com (John V. Zambito) >the author says runways have been angled ever since the British >did research and found them to be better than straight ones. Does >anybody have any more information. It seems that a pilot would want his >flight path parallel with the direction of the ship. >This would suggest that the runway be in this direction also. Angled deck means that there are actually two runways on the carrier. One parallel to the path of the ship and the other on an angle. The runway that is on an angle to the path of the ship is use to recover incoming aircraft so that a carrier can recover aircrafts at the same time it is launching aircrafts on the other runway. -- Anthony Lee (Michaelangelo teenage mutant ninja turtle) (Time Lord Doctor) ACSnet: anthony@batserver.cs.uq.oz TEL:+(61)-7-371-2651 Internet: anthony@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au +(61)-7-377-4139 (w) SNAIL: Dept Comp. Science, University of Qld, St Lucia, Qld 4072, Australia
nobody@Kodak.COM (Rick Lafford (x37825)) (12/15/90)
From: nobody@Kodak.COM (Rick Lafford (x37825)) Reply-To: lafford@serum.Kodak.Com Keywords: carriers To my limited knowledge, the great advantage of the angled flight deck is the ability to launch and recover aircraft at the same time. They also have the ability to clutter the forward decks with parked aircraft yet still be able to keep read aircraft on the waste cat's. Yes, it is more difficult to land on a runway that is angling away from your direction of flight but it is very much like a crosswind landing. Some side drift to keep lined up with the runway. Rick Lafford Eastman Kodak
henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) (12/15/90)
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) >From: jvz@ccird1.cci.com (John V. Zambito) >the author says runways have been angled ever since the British >did research and found them to be better than straight ones. Does >anybody have any more information. It seems that a pilot would want his >flight path parallel with the direction of the ship. Other things being equal, yes. But other things are not equal. Carriers are generally not big enough to have a clear runway running the full length of the deck *and* parking for all the aircraft simultaneously. This means that if your runway runs straight fore and aft, it *ends* at a crash barrier of some kind, with parked aircraft ahead of the barrier. The angled deck, on the other hand, ends over water, so if you overshoot the arresting cables, you just pour on the coal, pull up, and go around for another try. The minor hassle of having to make a landing at an angle is insignificant compared to the requirement for a zero-defects landing. -- "The average pointer, statistically, |Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology points somewhere in X." -Hugh Redelmeier| henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry
tm1y+@andrew.cmu.edu (Thomas A. McGowan) (12/15/90)
From: "Thomas A. McGowan" <tm1y+@andrew.cmu.edu> The angled flight decks are used for two reasons from what I understand. First and foremost This allow for mistakes in that a pilot can miss the arresting cables and fly off the deck and try again instead of crashing into the other panes on the deck. Second, this also allows for limited launch capabilities during recovery, for example CAP. Please add if I missed something. --Andy "Hydran Commander"
megazone@wpi.WPI.EDU (MEGAZONE 23) (12/17/90)
From: megazone@wpi.WPI.EDU (MEGAZONE 23) In article <1990Dec13.033642.19678@cbnews.att.com> jvz@ccird1.cci.com (John V. Zambito) writes: >I just bought a book called _The complete book on US firepower_. >In the aircraft carrier section, >the author says runways have been angled ever since the British >did research and found them to be better than straight ones. Does >anybody have any more information. It seems that a pilot would want his >flight path parallel with the direction of the ship. >This would suggest that the runway be in this direction also. The section of the deck that is angled is the landing area. The major advantage is that an aircraft which 'bolters' can go around to try again. If the deck is straight, and you miss the cables, you plow into all of the aircraft at the front of the deck. This happened a few times before angled decks were adopted. Also the angled deck makes room for two more catapults which can be used at the same time as the two bow cats. The angle of the deck also keeps aircraft from having to fly directly into the wake of the carrier. ############################################################################### # "Calling Garland operator 7G," EVE Email megazone@wpi.wpi.edu # # MEGAZONE, aka DAYTONA, aka BRIAN BIKOWICZ Bitnet Use a gateway. Sorry. # ###############################################################################
anthony@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au (Anthony Lee) (12/17/90)
From: anthony@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au (Anthony Lee) We in Australia get TV programs from the US at least several weeks after they been shown in the US. Tonight there was a program called "48 hours", a general current affairs program (CNS). The topic was the USS Kennedy. There was one scene where this F14 was landing and the landing hook failed to engage and the pilot have to take off at the other end for a second attempt. Lucky for for him the F14's engines are equipped with afterburners, the F14 took off again but the landing gears got within 30 feet above the water. What a closed call ! I think it is time like these you really appreicate angled flight decks, imagine your hooks failing to engage and there are a pair of fully fuelled F14s on the other end of the runway ! -- Anthony Lee (Michaelangelo teenage mutant ninja turtle) (Time Lord Doctor) ACSnet: anthony@batserver.cs.uq.oz TEL:+(61)-7-371-2651 Internet: anthony@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au +(61)-7-377-4139 (w) SNAIL: Dept Comp. Science, University of Qld, St Lucia, Qld 4072, Australia
steve@nuchat.sccsi.com (Steve Nuchia) (12/17/90)
From: steve@nuchat.sccsi.com (Steve Nuchia) Having an angled flight deck increases the range of headings and speeds you can drive the CV at and still have acceptable relative wind over the deck. I don't know how big a factor this was in going with them compared with simply increasing the launch rate. Another thing to consider is that underpowered bolters and dud launches go over the side instead of the bow so you don't run over the pilots as often. Relative wind is simple vector adition, your planes need something like 30 kts within a small number of degrees of the centerline, the more and the straighter the better. Using the fore-and-aft deck you have to head into the wind, but can pretty much pick your speed. Using the angle deck you can trade off heading and speed within limits set by the deck angle, the true wind speed, and the required relative wind. -- Steve Nuchia South Coast Computing Services (713) 964-2462 "Could we find tools that would teach their own use, we should have discovered something truly beyond price." Socrates, in Plato's Republic
cfreund@PICA.ARMY.MIL (CCL-L) (12/19/90)
From: "Charles T. Freund" (CCL-L) <cfreund@PICA.ARMY.MIL> | the author says runways have been angled ever since the British | did research and found them to be better than straight ones. Does | anybody have any more information. It seems that a pilot would want his | flight path parallel with the direction of the ship. | This would suggest that the runway be in this direction also. ____ _| | Pardon the poor representation, but you can see that the / \ | angled runway leaves deck areas the are not in line with \ \ | the runway. These areas are relatively safe from take-offs \ \ | and landings. The pilots have the entire length of the \ \ | runway to do their thing and/or go swimming. An aborted/ \ \| crash takeoffs/landings carry the aircraft along the runway |\ | and over the side. An inline runway has the | \ | entire deck inline, no "safe" area. Pilots had to contend | \ | with all obsticales on the deck (waiting/stored aircraft, |____| crew,etc) during takeoffs and landings. Crashes had a tendancy to plow into anything on deck. At least this is what I picked up on the Discovery Channel (Either 'Wings' or 'Carriers'). As for not having parallel path for the ship and aircraft, I would think that the difference in speed would minimize the effect. Or the potential damage considerations outweighed its effects and is something that carrier pilots have learned to deal with.
ron@hpfcso.fc.hp.com (Ron Miller) (01/10/91)
From: ron@hpfcso.fc.hp.com (Ron Miller) I'm amazed to see how many variations there are on "why do carriers have angled decks" in this forum. Some are correct, and some are focusing on secondary benefits. The simple answer is to allow a "touch-and-go" if the hook doesn't catch the wire instead of a "touch-and-crash-into-the-barrier-or-other- airplanes" of the old straight deck designs. I found an entry in his logbook for a *night* where my father had *18* 'no-arrest' attempts in an F-3H Demon. The problem was that the anti-bounce dashpot that keeps the arresting hook from banging back up after contacting the deck wasn't working. He was getting good approaches and touchdowns but the hook kept skipping for 17 passes!!! If he'd been landing on a straight deck ship, I might have been a fatherless child upon the first pass :-( (He was also pretty upset that no one told him what the problem was. He was getting mighty concerned that his flying was bad and might get him killed before he made a safe landing.) The additional catapaults off the angle deck didn't appear until the Forrestal class "supercarriers" Such smaller ships as the wooden-decked Essex was operating jets(F-3H and preceding) with an angled deck and steam catapaults in the mid 60's. But it only had room for bow cats. In addition, the F-4 wasn't operated off Essex class at all. The F-8 Crusader was their fighter complement. Ron Miller (I chose submarines)
lang@hpfcso.fc.hp.com (John J. Lang) (01/12/91)
From: lang@hpfcso.fc.hp.com (John J. Lang) > / hpfcso:sci.military / anthony@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au (Anthony Lee) / 6:27 pm Dec 14, 1990 / > Angled deck means that there are actually two runways on the > carrier. One parallel to the path of the ship and the other > on an angle. The runway that is on an angle to the path of the > ship is use to recover incoming aircraft so that a carrier can > recover aircrafts at the same time it is launching aircrafts on the > other runway. It also means a airplane that missed the arresting wires could take off and go around again rather than having to hit a crash net. In the days of the straight deck carrier, it net was necessary to keep the plane from crashing into other planes that had just landed. This was even more important with the introduction of jet aircraft since a crash net could not longer stop them. This also changed the procedure for landing. On a straight deck carrier you cut the engine as soon as you hit the deck. On an angled deck you give it full throttle. John Lang lang@hpfcla.fc.hp.com