kiravuo@kampi.hut.fi (Timo Kiravuo) (07/11/89)
From: kiravuo@kampi.hut.fi (Timo Kiravuo) In article <7946@cbnews.ATT.COM> moscom!de@cs.rochester.edu (Dave Esan) writes: >and Cambodia. To get around this ban the CIA shipped Tide laundry >detergent, which was mixed in 55 gallons drums with aviation fuel to >produce a napalm like substance. This was then used where needed without >violating the export laws. Basically napalm is jellified gasoline. When I was in army, it was made in a can by pouring in gasoline and soap detergent, like above. The mixture was mixed with a stick for a couple of hours and then left to set for overnight. This was done outside (gasoline fumes etc.). I don't recommend this for anyone, and besides, you can't sue me, becouse I'm in Finland. :-) (I'm getting paranoid of the Americans, they'll sue anything that has money.) I have heard that there are versions of napalm that are self-lighting, burn in water etc. We were taught that a napalm attack is not very dangerous to trained troops. Usually a plane first flies over and the returns to drop a canister of napalm. The napalm the spreads over an area about 50 meters wide and several hundred long. The first flame sucks most of the oxygen out of the air, but after that you have patches of napalm burning here and there, no big wall of flames. So you get up, shield your face, and run away. It says so right here in the book. :-) In the Finnish army you are supposed to have a woolen long coat with your equipment, which is good protection against fire. If you have time to get it out. Our instructors told us that napalm is most dangerous against civilians, who usually are not prepared. They also often wear light clothes that burn more easily and do not protect as much. Military clothes, at least in Finland, are usually made of natural fibres or otherwise more fire-resistant, so you are better protected. Also if you don't panic, you can get out of the are more quicklt. Finnish terrain is mostly covered by trees, so that should help somewhat, too. Open areas or streets with limited escape routes at towns might be worse for napalm attacks. -- Timo Kiravuo Helsinki University of Technology, Computing Center kiravuo@hut.fi kiravuo@fingate.bitnet sorvi::kiravuo work: 90-451 4328 home: 90-676 076
howard@cos.com (Howard C. Berkowitz) (07/13/89)
From: howard@cos.com (Howard C. Berkowitz) Some of the group discussion about napalm has used it as a synonym for any incendiary gel. Yes, of course, that is the common practice, but some detail might be useful here. Napalm is a gelling agent developed in 1942 by a group led by Louis Fieser (of organic chemistry textbook fame). The name comes from two of its major components, napthenic and palmitic acids. Technically, it is a coprecipitated aluminum stearate soap based on the aforementioned fatty acids. The gelling agent is mixed with gasoline in various proportions for various munitions. It is a relatively, but not completely, stable colloid, and may separate in storage. Other soaps used for gelling gasoline, on a field expedient basis, may have storage lives of only a few days before the gasoline separates. I'm not sure what the current munition loads are, but at least for a time, the Air Force was using an alternative called "incendigel (sp?)", which was variously described as a stable solution or suspension of polystyrene in gasoline, sometimes with white phosphorus added to make the gel self-igniting. I would suspect the polystyrene also would tend to make the smoke more toxic.
kamk@uunet.uu.net (Wrath O' Kahm) (07/22/89)
From: kamk@uunet.uu.net (Wrath O' Kahm)
In article <8232@cbnews.ATT.COM> howard@cos.com (Howard C. Berkowitz) writes:
+
+ ...
+
+... the Air Force was using an alternative called "incendigel (sp?)",
+which was variously described as a stable solution or suspension of
+polystyrene in gasoline, sometimes with white phosphorus added to
+make the gel self-igniting. I would suspect the polystyrene also
+would tend to make the smoke more toxic.
White phosphorous will also burn under water, making it harder
to extinguish the fire, and polystyrene makes the Napalm sticky
so it's harder to scrape off. Neither of these enhancements
were appreciated by the Viet Cong.
--
Kameran Kashani kamk@sco.com
The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc. uunet!sco!kamkallen%codon1.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Edward Allen;345 Mulford;x2-9025) (07/24/89)
From: allen%codon1.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Edward Allen;345 Mulford;x2-9025)
Kameran Kashani writes:
White phosphorous will also burn under water, making it harder
to extinguish the fire, and polystyrene makes the Napalm sticky
so it's harder to scrape off. Neither of these enhancements
were appreciated by the Viet Cong.
-- ___________-----------------------------
I think this is mistaken. My understanding of phosporus from both playing
with it in high school chemistry and accounts of WP wounds that I've read
is that phosphorus spontaneously ignites in air but water puts it out.
It's just that when you remove the water it re-ignites. Some of the more
rowdy guys in the chem class used this principle to make time delayed
smoke bombs. They'd put a couple grams in a dish of water and tuck the
dish in a corner of the lab where it could sit undiscovered as the water
evaporated. Several hours or days later the lab, or even the whole floor
would fill with smoke from the spitting, burning phosphorus. I also
specifically remember reading that soldiers with white phosphorus
fragments in them would try to get into water to extinguish them, but if
the fragments weren't removed while still submerged, they would re-ignite
when the men came back out.
Ed Allen (allen@enzyme.berkeley.edu)military@cbnews.ATT.COM (William B. Thacker) (07/26/89)
From: brspyr1.brs.com!miket (Mike Trout) In sci.military Digest Saturday, 22 July, 1989 Volume 2 : Issue 52 kamk@uunet.uu.net (Kameran Kashani) writes: > White phosphorous will also burn under water, making it harder > to extinguish the fire, and polystyrene makes the Napalm sticky > so it's harder to scrape off. Neither of these enhancements > were appreciated by the Viet Cong. Oh, I dunno...While there's no doubt these enhancements made the weapon more effective both physically and psychologically, a great deal of Communist strategy centered on getting the USA to spend as much money as possible on technology. The drain on the US economy from the development of weapons for Viet Nam was considerable, and eventually became a major factor in the US reluctance to continue the war. Communist leaders were more than willing to sacrifice soldiers (from what was in effect a limitless supply) in exchange for bleeding off more and more of the USA's will to fight--achieved through increasing the USA's cost in both blood and money--while the Communist will to fight was hardly affected at all by casualties. When it costs literally millions of dollars to kill each enemy soldier--and the enemy has a manpower pool of tens of millions--it becomes difficult to afford a war. -- NSA food: Iran sells Nicaraguan drugs to White House through CIA, SOD & NRO. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Michael Trout (miket@brspyr1)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ BRS Information Technologies, 1200 Rt. 7, Latham, N.Y. 12110 (518) 783-1161 "God forbid we should ever be 20 years without...a rebellion." Thomas Jefferson
howard@cos.com (Howard C. Berkowitz) (07/26/89)
From: howard@cos.com (Howard C. Berkowitz) In article <8534@cbnews.ATT.COM>, allen%codon1.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Edward Allen;345 Mulford;x2-9025) writes: > > > From: allen%codon1.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Edward Allen;345 Mulford;x2-9025) > > > Kameran Kashani writes: > > White phosphorous will also burn under water, making it harder > to extinguish the fire, and polystyrene makes the Napalm sticky > so it's harder to scrape off. Neither of these enhancements > were appreciated by the Viet Cong. > The reason for adding phosphorus was to make sure any random bit of gelled fuel would ignite, rather than rely. on an igniter and flame spread, as well as making it more difficult to extinguish. Phosphorus is normally stored under water in a lab, as opposed, say, to sodium and potassium which are kept under kerosene. Perhaps magnesium was confused with phosphorus. Magnesium, used for point target rather than area-effect incendiaries, will burn under water, or in nitrogen or carbon dioxide. Stray medical treatment note--white phosphorus burns have traditionally been flooded with a cupric sulfate solution, which converts the phosphorus to insoluble cupric phosphide. THere is some controversy whether this substance is significantly toxic itself, but it does > specifically remember reading that soldiers with white phosphorus > fragments in them would try to get into water to extinguish them, but if > the fragments weren't removed while still submerged, they would re-ignite > when the men came back out. > Sounds about right. -- howard@cos.com OR {uunet, decuac, sun!sundc, hadron, hqda-ai}!cos!howard (703) 883-2812 [W] (703) 998-5017 [H] DISCLAIMER: Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the Corporation for Open Systems, its members, or any standards body.
howard@cos.com (Howard C. Berkowitz) (01/27/91)
From: howard@cos.com (Howard C. Berkowitz) In article <1991Jan21.040347.4589@cbnews.att.com> ron@mlfarm.com (Ronald Florence) writes: >In his excellent book, _The Face of Battle_, John Keegan writes that >napalm "contains an ingredient which increases the adhesion of the >burning petrol to human skin surfaces." (Viking Press, 1976, p. 323) Napalm is actually the gelling agent rather than the overall munition filling. It is a contraction of NApthenic and PALMitic acids, the two fatty acids which are combined with aluminum to produce a coprecipitated aluminum stearate soap, the gelling agent. Napalm was developed in WWII by Dr. Louis Fieser of Harvard, author of one of the major organic chemistry textbooks. True napalm is rarely used, as gels with it tend to break up on standing. More commonly, a plastic such as polystyrene is dissolved in gasoline to form a gel, which the Air Force has called "incendigel." -- howard@cos.com OR {uunet, decuac, sun!sundc, hadron, hqda-ai}!cos!howard (703) 883-2812 [W] (703) 998-5017 [H] DISCLAIMER: Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the Corporation for Open Systems, its members, or any standards body.