anthony@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au (Anthony Lee) (02/04/91)
From: anthony@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au (Anthony Lee)
In <1991Jan28.035710.8230@cbnews.att.com> moudgill@cs.cornell.edu (Mayan Moudgill) writes:
:During the 71 India-Pakistan war, the Pakistanis were using Starfighters
:(F104-Gs??) and the Indians were using Gnats (subsonic and as close to a
:Kleenex jet fighter as you can get-- no missiles, a couple of cannon).
:I don't know the exact casualty ratios but they were something like a
:4-5 Starfighters per Gnat in air-to-air combat. Sucks, doesn't it?
What about the fact that the Indians have
AWACS support from the Soviet Union ?
--
Anthony Lee (Michaelangelo teenage mutant ninja turtle) (Time Lord Doctor)
ACSnet: anthony@batserver.cs.uq.oz TEL:+(61)-7-365-2447 (w)
Internet: anthony@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au
SNAIL: Dept Comp. Science, University of Qld, St Lucia, Qld 4072, Australiasburney@oracle.uucp (Shehryar Burney) (02/04/91)
From: sburney@oracle.uucp (Shehryar Burney) In article Message-ID: <1991Jan28.035710.8230@cbnews.att.com> moudgill@cs.cornell.edu (Mayan Moudgill) writes: > I have $0.02 to contribute. > During the 71 India-Pakistan war, the Pakistanis were using Starfighters > (F104-Gs??) and the Indians were using Gnats (subsonic and as close to a > Kleenex jet fighter as you can get-- no missiles, a couple of cannon). > I don't know the exact casualty ratios but they were something like a > 4-5 Starfighters per Gnat in air-to-air combat. Sucks, doesn't it? Pakistan took delivary of only 10 single-seat and 2 twin-seat F-104s. I don't know how many were operational in 1971, but at least 2 were lost in the 1965 India-Pakistan war. Therefore, the 4-5 F104/1 Gnat ratio is not very plausible. Pakistan's front-line fighters in that war were the Mirage III/Mirage V. India's mainstay was the Mig-21, which had actually been inducted in the Indian Air Force as early as 1965, along with some Su-? attack aircraft. India had more effective aircraft than the Gnat (Mig 21 and Hawker Hunter) but tended to overemphasize the role of the Gnat in press releases since it had been locally modified and was built in India. Due to propaganda by both sides, it is impossible to know exact losses, but see Chuck Yeager's autobiography "Yeager" for a completely different impression of the war than the above figures would imply. Yeager was the American air attache in Pakistan during the 1971 war. Shehryar Burney Oracle Consulting - Manhattan sburney@us.oracle.com (212) 303-3962 All opinions expressed are solely my own.
s37755c@taltta.hut.fi (Jochen Grandell) (02/06/91)
In article <1991Feb4.045416.11025@cbnews.att.com> smpod@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan) writes: > >This should tell you something: Pakistani pilots were trained by the U.S. >and Indian pilots were trained by the Soviets. Now name any war where >U.S.-trained pilots were bested by Soviet-trained pilots, Korea-no, >Vietnam-no, Middle East-no, Gulf war-no, Lybia-no. Sure...why not remember the fact that in all these wars the US-made planes had US pilots, not just some Neverneverlandish pilot _trained_ by the US. And how many times has it been a case of a dog-fight between Soviet and US pilots ? I wouldn't bet too much on some Libyan pilots, who aren't known to be any outstanding aces... (this is not a flame) , please don't make those articles sound like from the movie Top Gun..it's always good to trust your owns, but overwhelming patriotism disturbs me..(ok, now I got someones flame- machines on;) Jochen /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ///s37755c@taltta.hut.fi///////////// blaa blaa ////////////////////// ///jochen@niksula.hut.fi///////////// etc. ////////////////////// ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////