gnb@bby.oz.au (Gregory N. Bond) (02/09/91)
From: gnb@bby.oz.au (Gregory N. Bond)
The Gulf news has been full of phrases like "2,000 sorties flown per
day". I guess "missions" are flown with multiple planes, at least
three and maybe more (e.g. 3 for attack plus 3 for air cover), but do
those six planes count as one sortie, two or six?
Corollary: How many takeoffs/landings have happend at the 50,000
sortie-level? (May need to guess!)
Followup: What is the "expected" loss rate for military flights,
takeoffs & landings in a non-shooting environment? Given the 20-odd
planes lost in Desert Storm, and the sortie rate, how many of them
would be expected to be lost due to mechanical failure?
Greg.
--
Gregory Bond, Burdett Buckeridge & Young Ltd, Melbourne, Australia
Internet: gnb@melba.bby.oz.au non-MX: gnb%melba.bby.oz@uunet.uu.net
Uucp: {uunet,pyramid,ubc-cs,ukc,mcvax,prlb2,nttlab...}!munnari!melba.bby.oz!gnbshafer@skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) (02/11/91)
From: Mary Shafer <shafer@skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov>
Gregory N. Bond (gnb@bby.oz.au) writes:
The Gulf news has been full of phrases like "2,000 sorties flown per
day". I guess "missions" are flown with multiple planes, at least
three and maybe more (e.g. 3 for attack plus 3 for air cover), but do
those six planes count as one sortie, two or six?
Six. One airplane, one takeoff, one landing equals one sortie.
By the way, sortie is also a verb--as in "We sortied 300 aircraft
this morning." This then leads inescapable to the problem of how
to write sortie-ing--as in "They're sortie-ing planes at a pretty
good rate." I usually rewrite the sentence.
Corollary: How many takeoffs/landings have happend at the 50,000
sortie-level? (May need to guess!)
50,000 takeoffs and 50,000 landings. Obviously, at least 20 of those
landings were better characterized as ground impacts.
Followup: What is the "expected" loss rate for military flights,
takeoffs & landings in a non-shooting environment? Given the 20-odd
planes lost in Desert Storm, and the sortie rate, how many of them
would be expected to be lost due to mechanical failure?
I'd say, based on my experience and reading normal loss statistics,
that 20 losses/50,000 sorties is pretty respectable. Of course, the
ground crews spent a lot of time getting their aircraft into good
condition, so the rate should be low at first.
--
Mary Shafer shafer@skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov ames!skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov!shafer
NASA Ames Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
Of course I don't speak for NASA
"A MiG at your six is better than no MiG at all"--Unknown US fighter pilothenry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) (02/11/91)
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) >From: gnb@bby.oz.au (Gregory N. Bond) >The Gulf news has been full of phrases like "2,000 sorties flown per >day". I guess "missions" are flown with multiple planes, at least >three and maybe more (e.g. 3 for attack plus 3 for air cover), but do >those six planes count as one sortie, two or six? A sortie, by definition, is one plane one mission. So a six-plane group flying one mission is six sorties. >Followup: What is the "expected" loss rate for military flights, >takeoffs & landings in a non-shooting environment? ... Don't have numbers for a non-shooting environment. Numbers I do have, which may be of interest, are that the RAF to date is taking about a 2% attrition rate in combat missions, and reportedly considers 5% tolerable. -- "Maybe we should tell the truth?" | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology "Surely we aren't that desperate yet." | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry
jumper@hobbes.ncsu.edu (Michael Lanham) (02/12/91)
From: jumper@hobbes.ncsu.edu (Michael Lanham) gnb@bby.oz.au (Gregory N. Bond) writes: >The Gulf news has been full of phrases like "2,000 sorties flown per >day". I guess "missions" are flown with multiple planes, at least >three and maybe more (e.g. 3 for attack plus 3 for air cover), but do >those six planes count as one sortie, two or six? >Corollary: How many takeoffs/landings have happend at the 50,000 >sortie-level? (May need to guess!) A sortie is one plane one mission. If six planes go out on one mission then there are six sories logged. Assuming there are no aborted missions I would expect it is 2 X # sorties. Two because the plane has to take off and then land. -- He who will not reason, is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave. --- Sir William Drummond Michael Lanham mjlanham@eos.ncsu.edu & jumper@.catt.ncsu.edu
ham@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Bob Hamilton) (02/14/91)
From: ham@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Bob Hamilton) > A sortie is one plane one mission. If six planes go out on one > mission then there are six sorties logged. > Assuming there are no aborted missions I would expect it is 2 X # > sorties. Two because the plane has to take off and then land. Huh? sortie, n ... 3. The flying of an airplane on a combat mission. As I understand it, a sortie consists of a launch, followed, in decreasing order of probability, by the following optional activities: 1. Penetration 2. Attack 3. Return 4. Recovery --Bob Hamilton | Corporate Quality Information Systems | Sometimes, it really Hewlett-Packard Mail Stop 29AK | helps to know what 3172 Porter Drive | you're trying to do. Palo Alto, California 94304 | (415) 857-6025 ham@corp.hp.com |
larmo@pro-odyssey.cts.com (System Administrator) (02/15/91)
From: larmo@pro-odyssey.cts.com (System Administrator) In-Reply-To: message from jumper@hobbes.ncsu.edu >A sortie is one plane one mission. If six planes go out on one mission >then there are six sories logged. Correct >Assuming there are no aborted missions I would expect it is 2 X # sorties. >Two because the plane has to take off and then land. Nope, SORTE: from the french word sortir (to leave): a Mission flown by a single military aircraft. If the aircraft aborts after a partial mission or does not return a sortie is still logged ---- ---- ---- ---- ProLine: larmo@pro-odyssey AOL: ODYSSEY 1 Internet: larmo@pro-odyssey.cts.com Pro-Odyssey: 707/437-4734 ARPA: crash!pro-odyssey!larmo@nosc.mil UUCP: crash!pro-odyssey!larmo