carroll@cs.uiuc.edu (Alan M. Carroll) (02/26/91)
From: carroll@cs.uiuc.edu (Alan M. Carroll)
Can anyone tell me about 5 star generals in the US? In particular,
can you only become a ***** during wartime? Does a ***** get demoted
after the war, or does he keep his rank? What is the relation between
the Chairman of the JCS and a *****? How many stars do Powell and
Schwarzkopf have? (The seem to only have 4 on their collars, but I'm
not sure). Thanks!
--
Alan M. Carroll "I hate shopping with the reality-impaired"
Epoch Development Team - Susan
CS Grad / U of Ill @ Urbana ...{ucbvax,pur-ee,convex}!cs.uiuc.edu!carrollparmentier@iowasp.physics.uiowa.edu (02/27/91)
From: parmentier@iowasp.physics.uiowa.edu In article <1991Feb26.012607.6828@cbnews.att.com>, carroll@cs.uiuc.edu (Alan M. Carroll) writes: > Can anyone tell me about 5 star generals in the US? In particular, > can you only become a ***** during wartime? Does a ***** get demoted > after the war, or does he keep his rank? What is the relation between > the Chairman of the JCS and a *****? How many stars do Powell and > Schwarzkopf have? (The seem to only have 4 on their collars, but I'm > not sure). Thanks! > Generals seem to become five star either during or shortly after wartime. There really isn't a need for them in peacetime because the army isn't large enough to go that high in the command structure. During WWII we had four: Marshall, Arnold, Eisenhower, and Mac Arthur. In 1949, I think, Bradley was given that rank, also. Five stars keep there rank, lower ranks are sometimes only temporary raises in rank. I had also heard that five stars are never removed from active lists while alive, whether they're doing army work or not, though I'm not certain of this. Powell and Schwarzkopf are indeed ****'s. The last five was Omar Bradley, who passed away in 1984, at I seem to remember 88 years of age. ___ Gregg Parmentier ____ parmentier@iowasp.physics.uiowa.edu ___ "I waited in the dim hallway on a high-backed Spanish chair which Torquemada had made with his own hands." Ross Macdonald - Black Money
swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Williams) (02/27/91)
From: swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Williams) >Can anyone tell me about 5 star generals in the US? "5-star general" is not customary in the United States; and this have caused some problems, especially when an American general is in charge of a multi-national forces. Often an American general leads multi-national forces. General Eisenhower led the allied invasion of Normandy during World War II. Currently, General Schwarzkopf is leading the multi-national forces in the Gulf War. European forces (Great Britain, France, & Germany) have their Field Marshalls; United States doesn't have any. Field Marshalls rank just below the Commander in Chief. >can you only become a ***** during wartime? Apparently so. >Does a ***** get demoted after the war, or does he keep his rank? Omar Bradley remained as a 5-star general until his death. He was the last 5-star general in the United States Army. >What is the relation between the Chairman of the JCS and a *****? I really do not know. >How many stars do Powell and Schwarzkopf have? (The seem to only have >4 on their collars, but I'm not sure). You are right; they have only four stars. There has been a talk of their being promoted to five-stars, but I do not know if anything will come out of it. Steve Williams | "An expert is a person who has made all the Department of the Navy | mistakes which can be made in a very narrow David Taylor Research Center | field." -- Niels Bohr, Danish Scientist
major@uunet.UU.NET (Mike Schmitt) (02/27/91)
From: bcstec!shuksan!major@uunet.UU.NET (Mike Schmitt) > From: carroll@cs.uiuc.edu (Alan M. Carroll) > Can anyone tell me about 5 star generals in the US? In particular, > can you only become a ***** during wartime? The answer is no. Congress, in fact, authroizes the numbers of officers in grades - and would 'authorize' the rank of 5-star. Today - there are none - and not exptected to be any created. > Does a ***** get demoted > after the war, or does he keep his rank? No he wouldn't. Officers don't get "demoted". There used to be (WWII - Korea) and grade structure of "temporary" and "permanent" grades. After WWII and Korea, officers were "returned" to their permanent grades - normally one or two grades below their "temporary" grade. They wouldn't get 'demoted' and they would keep their rank. > How many stars do Powell and > Schwarzkopf have? (The seem to only have 4 on their collars, but I'm > not sure). Powell and Schwarzkopf are both 4-star Generals - the highest rank currently authorized. Powell, as Chairman, JCS is Schwarzkopf's "boss" because Central Command is probably a "joint" specified command (staffed by all services) thereby reporting to JCS and not the Army Chief of Staff. Operational chains of command can be very dynamic. During Vietnam, Westmoreland's immediate supervisor was Admiral Ulysses S. Grant Sharp, Commander-in-Chief Pacific Command, Hawaii - not JCS. mike schmitt
welty@sol.crd.ge.com (richard welty) (02/28/91)
From: welty@sol.crd.ge.com (richard welty) >From: carroll@cs.uiuc.edu (Alan M. Carroll) >Can anyone tell me about 5 star generals in the US? In particular, >can you only become a ***** during wartime? not exactly. the US for a long time had a thing about having high ranking military officers; we didn't want them. Washington's highest rank in his lifetime, to my knowledge, was Lieutenant General (our current 3 star rank.) the next one to come along was Grant, who was specially promoted after Vicksburg. eventually Grant was given 4 stars, and Sherman received the three star rank. when Grant retired to run for President, Sherman ascended to 4 stars, and Sheridan received 3 (there was considerable resentment, as it was felt that many Major Generals such as Meade, Thomas, etc., should have been promoted to 3 stars at the same time as Sheridan.) when Sherman retired, Sheridan received 4 stars. after Sheridan's death, such ranks were not continued, and 2 stars became the highest rank generally given. during WWI, Pershing received an unusual rank, General of the Armies; this title was not reused (my recollection was that another unusual rank was posthumuously given to Washington, but i could be wrong on this.) it became the practice that *temporary* 4 star rank would be given to the chief of staff of the army, but that the rank would revert to 2 stars on completion of the tour of duty in that job. this was the situation entering WWII. with the commencement of WWII, the US Army became so large, that 3 and 4 star ranks were reinstituted. towards the end of the war, congress (urged primarily by the Navy; the Army was somewhat cool to the idea) decided to institute 5 star ranks for Admirals and Generals; only select officers received such ranks. it was not possible for an officer with 5 stars to retire; congress had to pass a special act so that George Marshall could serve as Secretary of Defense, as active duty officers are not normally permitted to take that job, and as a 5 star general, he could not retire. > Does a ***** get demoted >after the war, or does he keep his rank? 5 stars is a rank indicating special regard, and is not something that would be revoked. >What is the relation between >the Chairman of the JCS and a *****? never been an issue. orders come from washington (although MacArthur didn't always agree.) >How many stars do Powell and >Schwarzkopf have? (The seem to only have 4 on their collars, but I'm >not sure). Thanks! 4. i believe that Omar Bradley was the last officer promoted to 5 stars, back when he was Chairman of the JCS during the Korean War. richard -- richard welty welty@sol.crd.ge.com 518-393-7228, Infologic, 1400 Balltown Road, Niskayuna, New York
brian@uunet.UU.NET (brian douglass personal account) (02/28/91)
From: edat!brian@uunet.UU.NET (brian douglass personal account) In article <1991Feb26.012607.6828@cbnews.att.com> carroll@cs.uiuc.edu (Alan M. Carroll) writes: >How many stars do Powell and >Schwarzkopf have? (The seem to only have 4 on their collars, but I'm >not sure). Thanks! Yes they are both currently ****, but a recent bill was introduced to make each a *****. This was done because some allied commanders technically out rank them both (I think the Saudi Commander is a *****). Brian Douglass Voice: 702-361-1510 X311 Electronic Data Technologies FAX #: 702-361-2545 1085 Palms Airport Drive brian@edat.uucp Las Vegas, NV 89119-3715 -- Brian Douglass brian@edat.uucp "Do you know what Saddam Hussein and his father have in common?" "Neither one knows when to pull out!"
major@uunet.UU.NET (Mike Schmitt) (02/28/91)
From: bcstec!shuksan!major@uunet.UU.NET (Mike Schmitt) > From: parmentier@iowasp.physics.uiowa.edu > ................................................Five stars keep there rank, > lower ranks are sometimes only temporary raises in rank. I had also heard > that five stars are never removed from active lists while alive, whether > they're doing army work or not, though I'm not certain of this. There are no more 'temporary' officer grades. Once an officer is promoted he remains in that grade - until promoted or retired. When there were 5-star generals alive - yes, they remained on the active duty list. However, generals (star/flag ranks) are always subject to recall to active duty by the Secretary of the Army (or service) at any time. In fact, all regular army officers who 'retire' are subject to recall to active duty. It will be interesting to see the 'heroes' that come out of the gulf war - the careers that are 'made' and the officers who 'advance' in rank and assignment. And, those that were not present - will fall in step behind those that were. The top heirarchy of the Army will soon consist of the gulf-veterans. Some recent examples: When Westmoreland was Army Chief of Staff - the top jobs were occupied by "Airborne" cronies. Under Creighton Abrams, "Armor" generals had the best commands. After Vietnam, it seemed that the 1st Infantry Division commanders occupied all the top jobs - Bernard Rogers, DuPuy, Fuller, et al. Then came Meyers, and the NATO complexion - and up to just recently, all the plum jobs went to 'European/NATO experienced' officers. In a few short years, the brigade/division/corps commanders of the gulf war will occupy the best command and staff positions. mike schmitt "We're going to go around them, over them, through them and under them." - General Schwartzkopf