drn@pinet.aip.org (donald_newcomb) (02/21/91)
From: drn@pinet.aip.org (donald_newcomb) Some time back I heard or read about a technique for extracting someone (e.g. downed pilot) behind enemy lines using a fixed-wing aircraft. As I remember, and it sounds bizare, a plane like a C130 lets a _long_ cable out the back. The plane then makes a tight circle over the person to be extracted. The cable, rather than becoming entangled in the props, drops to the ground where the extractee gets into the harness provided. The plane then slowly exits the tight loop it has been flying and lifts (I have no idea how gently) the individual into the air. He is reeled into the plane when convenient. I know this sounds crazy but has anyone else ever heard of anything remotely like this? Donald R. Newcomb | I will punish Bel in Babylon (601) 863-2235 | and take from his mouth what he has swallowed. drn@pinet.aip.org | -- Jeremiah 51:44
tohall@mars.lerc.nasa.gov (Dave Hall (Sverdrup)) (02/23/91)
From: tohall@mars.lerc.nasa.gov (Dave Hall (Sverdrup)) In article <1991Feb21.031546.12654@cbnews.att.com>, drn@pinet.aip.org (donald_newcomb) writes... > |Some time back I heard or read about a technique for extracting someone |(e.g. downed pilot) behind enemy lines using a fixed-wing aircraft. |I remember, and it sounds bizare, a plane like a C130 lets a _long_ |cable out the back. ... |I know this sounds crazy but has anyone else ever heard of anything |remotely like this? Sure, though I don't know the official name or DoD designation. The system works by having the rescuee deploy a "weather balloon", which is connected to his "parachute harness". The C-130 (or whatever) just snags the balloon and tether, then reels in the lucky rider. My understanding is that the system was used during Vietnam to pluck people out of both ocean and jungles. My old boss was retired USAF, and one of his jobs during the 60's was to work on development of this thing. He said that he was "Master of Ceremonies" during a demonstration on Guam for a bunch of the brass. They used a department store mannequin for the "Rescuee". Supposedly, the force imparted to the mannequin during pickup caused the arms and legs to snap off and go flying in separate directions. My old boss suffered a "Complete loss of military decorum" at this point (could not stop laughing for quite a while). Eventually, the bugs were worked out and it was deployed. Anyone out there know if it is still in use? >
doconnor@uunet.uu.net (02/26/91)
From: doconnor@uunet.uu.net
The "non-stop" pickup method being discussed is the "Fulton Recovery System".
A balloon lifts a cable into the air, and the cable is snagged by a v-shaped
device on the front of an MC-130 Combat Talon. The cable is then grabbed
by members of the aircrew, and somehow is winched up, with the payload
being recovered through the cargo ramp at the back of the aircraft.
The Combat Talon aircraft is operated ( I think the designation is MC-130,
bu the "M" could be incorrect ) is operated by Air Force Special Operations
Forces based at Hurlburt Field, in Florida. This is the same group that
operate the AC-130 Spectre gunships, MH-53J Pave Low helicopters, and
MH-60 Pave Hawk helicopters. Also part of AFSOF are the Combat Controller
Teams (CCT's) who furnish air traffic control capabilities from forward
(and sometimes even in front of forward :-) locations; combat weather teams
who provide weather data collection from similar locations; special
communications teams, and combat cameramen ("Work with me, baby, work with me!
:-). I think they also fly KC-130 tankers from AFSOF.
THe Fulton Recovery System (FRS) is routinely practiced with dummies, and
is an available technique, but it is apparently rarely used due to the
risks invlovled. FRS is only one of many missions flown by Combat Talons.
Another posting mentioned another Combat Talon mission system: the
Low-Altitude Parachute Extraction System ( LAPES ). In this operation
the plane flies very low, and then a parachute attached to a pallet
of deliverables ( like a jeep ) is ejected out the back through
the open cargo door. The pallet follows soon after, of course.
Given that the aircraft never stops flying during LAPES or FRS,
this really does open up ne meanings for the term "non-stop flight".
( Note that LAPES is considered to rough a ride for people, tho,
even for Marines. )
All this is best-of-my-knowledge, and unclassified material.AUGUST@JPLLSI.JPL.NASA.GOV (Richard B. August) (02/27/91)
From: AUGUST@JPLLSI.JPL.NASA.GOV (Richard B. August) The fixed wing extraction technique was developed during the Vietnam War by the AirForce (the project manager is an aquaintance of mine). The method described by Donald R. Newcomb in his posting is somewhat flawed. The fixed wing aircraft does *not* drag a cable behind it. The downed pilot would have to have an extraction kit consisting of: 1) the harness 2) a baloon 3) the cable 4) a tank of helium The scenario: get in the harness attach cable to harness and balloon fill balloon with helium aircraft captures cable and reels-in the pilot Regarding the gentleness of the recovery: I have been told that the cable had some elasticity built-in so that the acceleration would not have the effect of drawing-and-quartering the person being recovered. This recovery method has been used in a number of movies. Richard B. August august@vlsi.jpl.nasa.gov
wb8foz@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (David Lesher) (02/27/91)
From: David Lesher <wb8foz@mthvax.cs.miami.edu>
{Mr. Moderator, use :-]'s as you see fit}
>The "non-stop" pickup method being discussed is the "Fulton Recovery System".
>A balloon lifts a cable into the air, and the cable is snagged by a v-shaped
>device on the front of an MC-130 Combat Talon.
>All this is best-of-my-knowledge, and unclassified material.
Actually, you need a double-naught clearance to use this method.
If you need to brush up on the background material, go to the
classified footage archiver in your neighborhood and requisition:
Thunderball
for specific details. Tell them Mr. Bond sent you.
--
A host is a host from coast to coast.....wb8foz@mthvax.cs.miami.edu
& no one will talk to a host that's close............(305) 255-RTFM
Unless the host (that isn't close)......................pob 570-335
is busy, hung or dead....................................33257-0335amlovell@phoenix.princeton.edu (Anthony M Lovell) (02/28/91)
From: amlovell@phoenix.princeton.edu (Anthony M Lovell) I saw a picture once of a similar technique wherein a person on the ground lets up a weather-balloon sort of gizmo on a tether. A C-130 or similar transport flew by, snaringthe tether in a gathering vane (sturdy Y-shaped trap fixed to the very nose. The person was lifted up and winched to the ramp in back. Looked like fun, but not usable in just any terrain. I could not believe it, but saw it in AvWeek. Whether they consider this a "real" capability or curiousity, I dunno. tony amlovell@phoenix.princeton.edu ...since 1963.
CHAN93%SNYBUFVA.BITNET@CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu (Alvin M. Chan) (02/28/91)
From: "Alvin M. Chan" <CHAN93%SNYBUFVA.BITNET@CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
A little more info on fixed wing extraction with the C-130 Hercules :
the rescuee, or maybe a prisoner sits on ground in harness attached to
balloon, then the rescuing Herc opens a set of BIG calipers on the nose
which will snag the balloon cord, and the balloon. What I'm wondering
about is WHERE the person goes after the guy is in the air?!?! Does the
guy somehow end up in the area of the back doors? or does he dangle there
until the plane is over a dropoff point, and the guy parachutes down?
Some film examples are the "Wings" documentary on the discovery channel,
specifically the C-130, and also the John Wayne movie "The Green Berets".
In the latter example, the rescuee kinda looks like a mannequin, but at
least its arms and legs didn't fall off!!! I think the major factor is
the rate at which the rescuee leaves the ground, and hopefully a lack
of obstacles on the ground! As the Wings documentary stated "get ready
for the ride of your life".
- Alv