dennett@Kodak.COM (Charlie Dennett) (03/05/91)
From: dennett@Kodak.COM (Charlie Dennett) After watching General Swartzkopf the other day, I noticed what appeared to be a short leather strap hanging from his right shirt pocket. On this there were four items, all black. There were two stars. I couldn't make out the other two items. I've seen the same leather strap on a few other officers. What is this and what is the significance of the items that are attached to the strap. Thanks, Charlie Dennett | Rochester Distributed Computer Services Mail Stop 01816 | Internet: dennett@Kodak.COM Eastman Kodak Company | System Manager - Imaging Science Lab Rochester, NY 14650-1816 |
geoffb@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Thumper) (03/06/91)
From: geoffb@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Thumper) dennett@Kodak.COM (Charlie Dennett) writes: >After watching General Swartzkopf the other day, I noticed what >appeared to be a short leather strap hanging from his right shirt >pocket. On this there were four items, all black. There were two >stars. I couldn't make out the other two items. I've seen the same >leather strap on a few other officers. What is this and what is the >significance of the items that are attached to the strap. I was wondering about this myself and was given to understand that it was the Saudi Arabian rank equivalent to that of the Coalition wearer. Source: A vague reference in a letter from someone over there and a brief comment on the news in September (NBC or CNN, I forget). I admit, this isn't proof positive... But it makes sense. I have been trying to compare the stuff that Schwartzkopf's aides wear to the stuff worn by the Saudi officers, but there is so little footage these days! (Huzzah!) If I'm wrong... tell me. -Geoff
major@uunet.UU.NET (Mike Schmitt) (03/06/91)
From: bcstec!shuksan!major@uunet.UU.NET (Mike Schmitt) > From: dennett@Kodak.COM (Charlie Dennett) > After watching General Swartzkopf the other day, I noticed what > appeared to be a short leather strap hanging from his right shirt > pocket. On this there were four items, all black. There were two > stars. I couldn't make out the other two items. I've seen the same > leather strap on a few other officers. What is this and what is the > significance of the items that are attached to the strap. I believe what you are describing is the rank insignia of a Saudi full general. The Saudis use a series of crossed swords, stars, and wreaths to depict rank. This is common in a multi-national force to wear your counterpart's insignia. It might be confusing to the officers and men of the other nation's trying to figure out whether they are talking to a general or a lieutenant. Many foreign armies use the star to denote the lower ranks - lieutenant to senior lieutenant - then add a wreath to denote field-grade ranks - then a sword or 'red' to denote general rank (or something more elaborate). Not that I should think anybody would mistake General Schwartzkopf for a major. :-) I believe 4-stars is the rank for a Spanish Senior Captain. In Vietnam we all wore our counterpart rank insignia on our right pocket. And we wore the FWMAF patch (Free World Military Assistance Forces) When I was a liaison officer to the German 12th Panzer Division and to the 35th PanzerGrenadier Brigade - I wore the equivalent German rank insignia along with the 12th PzDiv patch. However, when I was liaison with the 13th French Commandos, we didn't wear ANY insignia. Someone's going to come out with a book called "Insignia of the Gulf War". mike schmitt
crowl@cs.rochester.edu (Lawrence Crowl) (03/07/91)
From: crowl@cs.rochester.edu (Lawrence Crowl) >From: dennett@Kodak.COM (Charlie Dennett) >After watching General Swartzkopf the other day, I noticed what appeared to >be a short leather strap hanging from his right shirt pocket. On this there >were four items, all black. There were two stars. I couldn't make out the >other two items. I've seen the same leather strap on a few other officers. >What is this and what is the significance of the items that are attached to >the strap? The leather strap hanging from General Schwartzkopf's shirt pocket has two palms, a crown, and a pip. (I think, corrections welcome). This is the Saudi insignia for the General's rank, full general. When troops from many nations operate together in the same area, officiers (soldiers?) often wear their rank in the insignia of the host nation somewhere on their uniform. With this custom, each person only needs to learn the insignia of the host country to identify the rank of foreigners, and does not need to learn the insignia of every nation. In Vietnam, my father (U.S. Air Force captain, two silver bars) wore the South Vietnamese insigna for his rank (three pips). I guess the military settled on the leather pocket tabs as a common place to put the host nation's rank. -- Lawrence Crowl 716-275-9499 University of Rochester crowl@cs.rochester.edu Computer Science Department ...!rutgers!rochester!crowl Rochester, New York, 14627