MEDELMA@CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU (Michael Edelman) (03/06/91)
From: Michael Edelman <MEDELMA@CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU> Many commentators have cited the poor showing of the Iraqi air defenses as evidence that Soviet air defense equipment is no match for US countermeasures; some have implied that this has policy implications for future US procurement and deployment. There have also been a number of quotations reported from an unnamed Soviet general to this effect. A more likely explaination can be found in the "Firepower" cable show recommended by some members of this forum, "The Weapons of Desert Shield". One analyst pointed out that Iraq had no modern long-range air-to-air missiles. Their only long range AA was the SAM-2, which was described as "obsolete even by third world standards." I believe the SAM-2 was deployed in Vietnam over 20 years ago. In medium and short range defenses the Iraqis were overloaded with radar guided guns (AAA). It was hypothesized that the Iraqis chose guns as they can also be used in a ground defense situation, and would have been useful in the war with Iran. --mike edelman medelma@cms.cc.wayne.edu medelma@waynest1
anthony@cs.uq.oz.au (Anthony Lee) (03/13/91)
From: anthony@cs.uq.oz.au (Anthony Lee) In <1991Mar6.035834.22525@cbnews.att.com> MEDELMA@CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU (Michael Edelman) writes: >In medium and short range defenses the Iraqis were overloaded with radar >guided guns (AAA). It was hypothesized that the Iraqis chose guns as they >can also be used in a ground defense situation, and would have been useful >in the war with Iran. May I suggest an alternative reasons, in the Iran-Iraq war of the 80s the two countries rarely used the full effectiveness of airpower. Also closed air support was virtually unheard of. Consequently there's very little need to develop air defence. -- Anthony Lee (Michaelangelo teenage mutant ninja turtle) (Time Lord Doctor) email: anthony@cs.uq.oz.au TEL:+(61)-7-365-2697 (w) SNAIL: Dept Comp. Science, University of Qld, St Lucia, Qld 4072, Australia
smpod@saturn.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan) (03/14/91)
From: smpod@saturn.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
In anthony@cs.uq.oz.au (Anthony Lee) writes...
/In (Michael Edelman) writes:
//In medium and short range defenses the Iraqis were overloaded with radar
//guided guns (AAA). It was hypothesized that the Iraqis chose guns as they
//can also be used in a ground defense situation, and would have been useful
//in the war with Iran.
/
/Consequently there's very little need to develop air defence.
Not quite true. Pilots who flew over Hanoi, said that the flak over
Iraq was denser!
I think that the main reason that the Iraqi air defenses were so ineffective
was that their central command and communications were knocked out on the
first day. The only aircraft that flew over Bagdad were F-117As. Any Iraqi
radar that dared to show its 'face' were knocked out by HARMs. The Iraqis
were not willing to turn on their radars for sufficient enough time to get
some benefit except for escaping to Iran.darrell%sequoia.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Darrell Long) (03/18/91)
From: darrell%sequoia.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Darrell Long) I haven't heard anything about this so I'll ask: were any F-117As lost during the Gulf war? If so, how?
smpod@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan) (03/20/91)
From: smpod@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan) In darrell%sequoia.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Darrell Long) writes... /I haven't heard anything about this so I'll ask: were any F-117As lost during the /Gulf war? According to the NYT no F-117s were lost eventhough they were the only aircraft allowed to attack Bagdad.