x35147d3@usma8.usma.edu (Bergman Charles CDT) (04/04/91)
From: x35147d3@usma8.usma.edu (Bergman Charles CDT) In reply to the listing about the A-6E being unable to use smart munitions--that is wrong. The Intruder is probably one of the best attack aircraft in the world and can carry almost all U.S. Air to surface bombs and missiles including LGBs and even Tomahawk ALCMs (which are definitely consider a smart munition). It doesn't surprise me that CBS (Communist Broadcasting Service) said this. I have heard from unofficial sources that the Air Force monopolized the stocks of U.S. LGBs and they let the Marines and Navy have very little. It boggles me that the F-117 was "so great." Almost all tactical aircraft in the U.S. inventory can drop LGBs and many of them, with attached laser designating pods, can deliver these bombs on there own - just like the F-117. I guess the Air Force figured they had to prove the need for the costly stealth fighter. The F-111 is very good with LGBs (remember Libya) and can fly farther and drop more! Even in Vietnam the same type LGBs used in Iraq were used towards the end of the War from aircraft like F-4Es. Phantoms Phorever! Charles K. Bergman x35147d3@usma8.usma.edu x35147d3@usma8-emh2.army.mil
v059l49z@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (04/06/91)
From: v059l49z@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu In article <1991Apr5.092420.8844@amd.com>, x35147d3@usma8.usma.edu (Bergman Charles CDT) writes... >The Intruder is probably one of the best attack aircraft in the world and can >carry almost all U.S. Air to surface bombs and missiles including LGBs and even >Tomahawk ALCMs (which are definitely consider a smart munition). It doesn't >surprise me that CBS (Communist Broadcasting Service) said this. I've heard that the medium range version of Tomahawk for A-6's and that type of plane was cancelled. Can anyone comment on this? I don't remember where I heard this (it was some time ago.) It's listed as an option for the A-6 in MODERN NAVAL COMBAT. Paul "Joe Friday" Stacy
schweige@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (Jeffrey M. Schweiger) (04/06/91)
From: schweige@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (Jeffrey M. Schweiger) In article <1991Apr5.092420.8844@amd.com>, x35147d3@usma8.usma.edu (Bergman Charles CDT) writes... >The Intruder is probably one of the best attack aircraft in the world and can >carry almost all U.S. Air to surface bombs and missiles including LGBs and even >Tomahawk ALCMs (which are definitely consider a smart munition). It doesn't >surprise me that CBS (Communist Broadcasting Service) said this. There have never been any operational air-launched versions of the Tomahawk cruise missile. Both the tactical MRASM (Medium-Range Air-to-Surface Missile) and strategic variant (unsuccessful competitor to the Boeing AGM-86 Air-Launched Cruise Missile (ALCM) were cancelled. The operational Tomahawks are all surface or submarine launched versions. The A6 can carry Harpoon, HARM, Maverick, Skipper II and Sidewinder missiles, as well as laser-guided and other bombs. The A6 can also carry the land-attack variant of the Harpoon missile, the SLAM (Stand-off Land Attack Missile). -- Jeff Schweiger Standard Disclaimer CompuServe: 74236,1645 Internet (Milnet): schweige@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil
pss4@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Paul S Shannon) (04/06/91)
From: pss4@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Paul S Shannon) In article <1991Apr6.021133.14701@amd.com> v059l49z@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu writes: >I've heard that the medium range version of Tomahawk for A-6's and that type >of plane was cancelled. Can anyone comment on this? I don't remember where >I heard this (it was some time ago.) It's listed as an option for the A-6 >in MODERN NAVAL COMBAT. I remember hearing something about the Soviets objecting to air launched cruise missiles in arms negotiations, and the US agreeing not to produce such weapons. But would this be with respect only to long range, nuclear tipped Tomahawks? Or is it very easy to change the Tomahawks conventional warhead to a nuclear one?
adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk (Adrian Hurt) (04/09/91)
From: adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk (Adrian Hurt) In article <1991Apr6.021133.14701@amd.com> v059l49z@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu writes: >I've heard that the medium range version of Tomahawk for A-6's and that type >of plane was cancelled. Can the Tomahawk be air-launched? I thought the Tomahawk was the cruise missile launched from the surface - the one that looks like a torpedo with wings. The missile I thought was the ALCM is triangular in cross-section, and has its engine inlet mounted on top (the Tomahawk's inlet is underneath). My memory probably needs updating, though. Corrections by email are welcome. [The Tomahawk cannot be air-launched, seems to be the definitive answer. --CDR] Adrian Hurt | JANET: adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian | ARPA: adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk
megazone@wpi.WPI.EDU (Brian Bikowicz) (04/10/91)
From: megazone@wpi.WPI.EDU (Brian Bikowicz) In article <1991Apr10.024432.21134@amd.com> adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk (Adrian Hurt) writes: >Can the Tomahawk be air-launched? I thought the Tomahawk was the cruise >missile launched from the surface - the one that looks like a torpedo with >wings. The missile I thought was the ALCM is triangular in cross-section, >and has its engine inlet mounted on top (the Tomahawk's inlet is underneath). There a variants of the Tomahawk for Air, surface, and sub launching. They all have a *GM-109 designator to my knowledge. The MRASM is basically a Tomahawk, although it does not carry that name. The USAF held a fly-off between the Boeing ALCM and the Tomahawk. The ALCM is the missile with the dorsal inlet and the triangular nose. (The ALCM won the USAF contest.) The ALCM is a nuclear deterent, whereas the Tomahawk has many conventional explosive options which allows its use in wars such as Iraq. -- Brian Bikowicz megazone@wpi.wpi.edu
fiddler@Eng.Sun.COM (Steve Hix) (04/11/91)
From: fiddler@Eng.Sun.COM (Steve Hix) >From: adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk (Adrian Hurt) > >In article <1991Apr6.021133.14701@amd.com> v059l49z@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu writes: >>I've heard that the medium range version of Tomahawk for A-6's and that type >>of plane was cancelled. > > [The Tomahawk cannot be air-launched, seems to be the > definitive answer. --CDR] I have a couple of books/magazines at home that have the same picture of a Tomahawk being dropped from an A-6. The missile is bright red, so I suppose it was a picture of a test firing, not that the air-launched Tomahawk was ever/will ever be fielded. [Things that look very much like a Tomahawk can be air-launched, seems to be the definitive answer. :-) --CDR]
dvlssd@cs.umu.se (Stefan Skoglund) (04/11/91)
From: dvlssd@cs.umu.se (Stefan Skoglund) Well, it is like that : in one little book I have at home ( Bill Gunston's Airlaunched missiles ) is a perfect picture of a Tomahawk hanging at the fuselage station on GD's own F-16 ( I think else they loaned it from the AF). That was of course a prototype. Something or somebody stopped the whole idea -- dvlssd@cs.umu.se, Stefan Skoglund I Tel +46 90 19 65 29
wab@uunet.UU.NET (Bill Baker) (04/12/91)
From: igor!rutabaga!wab@uunet.UU.NET (Bill Baker) In article <1991Apr11.033726.4881@amd.com> megazone@wpi.WPI.EDU (Brian Bikowicz) writes: >The USAF held a fly-off >between the Boeing ALCM and the Tomahawk. The ALCM is the missile with the >dorsal inlet and the triangular nose. (The ALCM won the USAF contest.) >The ALCM is a nuclear deterent, whereas the Tomahawk has many conventional >explosive options which allows its use in wars such as Iraq. I've wondered for a long time which is the better cruise missile. Back when I was in junior high (shows you how long procurement cycles are), my dad was a PR type for Boeing, and he took me into the "lab" where they were working on one of the prototypes. Very cool: An ice-white missile about the size of my sailboat with tiger's teeth on the nose. I remember that the ALCM blew away the Tomahawk in the original fly-offs (adjust for Boeing prejudices). Now, the Tomahawk has obviously earned its stripes, but I'm curious as to which is the more accurate missile. Unless they're demobilized from the nuclear deterrence role, we'll never get to see the ALCM tested in combat like the Tomahawk. Still, they must test fire ALCM's occasionally and I wonder if it still beats the pants off the Tomahawk. Is there an unclassified answer?