a481@mindlink.bc.ca (J.D. Frazer) (04/20/91)
From: a481@mindlink.bc.ca (J.D. Frazer) Could some kind soul(s) fill me in on what the typical US, Brit, German, Australian and Canadian infantrymen are outfitted with in their field kits? My reasons for this sort of knowledge are a tad convoluted, so I'll skip the explanation. Many thanks in advance! -- J.D. Frazer a481@mindlink.UUCP Vancouver, British Columbia CANADA
ab3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Allan Bourdius) (04/22/91)
From: Allan Bourdius <ab3o+@andrew.cmu.edu> To my best knowledge, the standard equipment for a USMC Infantryman (rifleman) is as follows: Utility Uniform Utility Cover Combat Boots Helmet Flak Jacket Gloves M16A2 Service Rifle Gas Mask and Carrier w/personal decontamination kit Load Bearing Equipment: Cartridge Belt Belt Suspender Straps 2 1 qt. Canteens w/covers Canteen Cup 2 M16 Magazine Pouches w/grenade carriers Bayonet Knife w/sheath Compass w/case First Aid Kit All-purpose Light-weight Carrying Equipment (ALICE) Pack: ALICE Pack Pack Frame Poncho Poncho Liner Shelter-half 3 Tent Poles 5 Tent Stakes Sleeping Pad Sleeping Bag Extra Utility Uniform Entrenching Tool Granted, this is just the basics and is nowhere near what he would march into a combat zone with. -- Allan Bourdius [MIDN 3/C (Marine Option)/Brother, Phi Kappa Theta Fraternity] ab3o+@andrew.cmu.edu or Box 4719, 5125 Margaret Morrison St., Pgh., PA 15213 The opinions in this post/mail are only those of the author, nobody else.
carlson@gateway.mitre.org (Bruce Carlson) (04/23/91)
From: carlson@gateway.mitre.org (Bruce Carlson)
In article <1991Apr23.053758.23784@amd.com> ab3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Allan Bourdius) writes:
[ENTIRE 35-line article quoted - if you want to read it see yesterday's
digest/posting, for crying out loud! --CDR]
The Army issue is similar to USMC, but there are a few exceptions I can
think of off-hand:
1. The Army usually does not issue Flak Jackets.
2. Most units only issue one canteen, but they may chose to issue two
one-quart or a single two-quart canteen in hot weather areas.
3. Compasses are not issued to all personnel; usually your position or
duty MOS will determine whether you get one issued. A compass is
part of the equipment listed in the table of organization and equipment
for your unit; its not a personal issue item like a sleeping bag.
4. Sleeping bag issue will depend on the projected climate. There are
different versions of the bag and in some cases (tropical) you might
not get a sleeping bag at all.
5. Weapons and several other items are individually assigned, but not
individually authorized (issue is tied to your duty position). For
example, a Captain that is in a staff position may be authorized to
carry an M16 rifle, but a Captain that is a Company Commander is
authorized to carry a pistol. When the Company Commander relinquishes
his command and moves to be an Assistant S-3 he will give up his
pistol and be authorized to carry an M16.
6. The Army also usually issues:
2 water-proof bags (fairly large)
NBC protection equipment, two-piece suit, shoes, gloves, etc.
heavy-duty overshoes
camouflage band (for helmet)
sleep-shirt
field-pants
Most units have some type of supplemental issue, based on their mission
or area of operation. You might get jungle fatigues, cold weather
gear, or other items that are not 'standard'. Airborne units used to
get a different style of helmet liner, but I don't know if this has
changed with the Kevlar helmets. The old airborne liner had a chin
strap and the helmet had the "under-the-chin" strap; both were used.
The Army standard issue is cataloged in the Common Table of Allowances,
CTA-50-900.
Bruce Carlson
carlson@gateway.mitre.orgbxr307@csc1.anu.edu.au (04/25/91)
From: bxr307@csc1.anu.edu.au > From: carlson@gateway.mitre.org (Bruce Carlson) > The Army issue is similar to USMC, but there are a few exceptions I can > think of off-hand: [...] > 5. Weapons and several other items are individually assigned, but not > individually authorized (issue is tied to your duty position). For > example, a Captain that is in a staff position may be authorized to > carry an M16 rifle, but a Captain that is a Company Commander is > authorized to carry a pistol. When the Company Commander relinquishes > his command and moves to be an Assistant S-3 he will give up his > pistol and be authorized to carry an M16. Here in Oz the almost reverse is true. Most infantry officers below Battalion CO in the infantry will attempt to carry a long arm (rifle) rather than a short arm (pistol). Why? Because in Vietnam it was found that snipers could identify officers by the absence of a rifle and would attempt to pick them off, while it was also understood that every extra rifle would come in handy in a firefight if the worst came to the worst. In Vietnam even Chaplains would quite often carry a rifle (unloaded) so that snipers wouldn't pick on them, mistaking them for officers. For the much the same reason, what the US Army would call "specialists" like signallers, weapons crew, etc, here would not normally carry a pistol. They would carry a rifle/SMG instead. Either to prevent them from being picked out by snipers (such as would be the case of signallers) or because if they have to defend themselves a pistol is almost always useless. Even in what would normally be considered "rear area" units, personel carry rifles or SMG's rather than pistols. Speaking of snipers and so on, here in Oz if you are what is considered "tactical" (ie psuedo-operational) you would not salute officers, as it would again mark them for snipers. At the same time in many infantry units to prevent people being identified from a distance as being officers/NCO's badges of rank are removed. I was wondering if similar precautions are normally taken by the US Army? > sleep-shirt A what? For use in the field? You got to be kidding. -- Brian Ross
emery@Dr_No.mitre.org (David Emery) (04/30/91)
From: emery@Dr_No.mitre.org (David Emery) A "sleeping shirt" is sort of a cross of an undershirt and a pullover sweater. It is long-sleeved with knit cuffs and a small, anorak-style collar, and a zipper opening. It usually hangs down about butt-level. The idea is a shirt that is light, dries quickly and provides a bit of warmth in "cool tropical nights". It's very comfortable; I've worn 2 out... dave
waltm@bu.edu (Walt Mattison) (05/01/91)
From: maxzilla.UUCP!waltm@bu.edu (Walt Mattison) bxr307@csc1.anu.edu.au writes: >Speaking of snipers and so on, here in Oz if you are what is >considered "tactical" (ie psuedo-operational) you would not salute >officers, as it would again mark them for snipers. At the same time in >many infantry units to prevent people being identified from a distance >as being officers/NCO's badges of rank are removed. I was wondering if >similar precautions are normally taken by the US Army? Well, since the current issued rank is subdued for use on the BDUs I don't think it is as critical as it was back in the South East Asian War Games. ( wayyyyy bbaaaacccckkk when stripes were sewn on the sleeves, and uniforms were OD green, not woodland camo..) You did forget one of the best ways to tell who was in charge from a distance.....the clown holding the handset of the radio was typically someone you wanted to hit as a sniper....and to answer your question...when in the field, ie. tactical you are not required to salute in the US military, as a matter of fact 20 years ago you could get punched out for saluting in RVN...8^), gee has it been that long? walt
Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Robert Allen) (05/01/91)
From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Robert Allen) maxzilla.UUCP!waltm@bu.edu (Walt Mattison) writes: >You did forget one of >the best ways to tell who was in charge from a distance.....the clown >holding the handset of the radio was typically someone you wanted to hit as >a sniper. A friend of mine who was in the Marines during the 80's was told that the radioman has the lowest life expectancy in combat of any one member of a team. [OK, this has drifted far enough away from the subject... --CDR] -- Robert Allen, rja@sun.com DISCLAIMER: I disclaim everything.
major@uunet.UU.NET (Mike Schmitt) (05/02/91)
From: bcstec!shuksan!major@uunet.UU.NET (Mike Schmitt) > From: bxr307@csc1.anu.edu.au > Here in Oz the almost reverse is true. Most infantry officers below > Battalion CO in the infantry will attempt to carry a long arm (rifle) > rather than a short arm (pistol). In 'peacetime' everyone wants to wear a pistol and not carry a rifle. Why? 'Cause carrying a rifle is a pain - and loosing one is not a career enhancing move. But, when the bullets are going to fly for real now, everyone wants a rifle - for firepower, protection, whathaveyou. A while back there was a growing practice of 'senior' officers of the 1st Inf Div carrying 'plastic' or 'hard rubber' "training aid" .45 pistols - instead of their real ones. Then, they didn't have to worry about securing them and safekeeping. Well, the 1st ID deployed to Germany on Reforger - with their plastic .45's. While in Germany - the Yom Kippur War broke out. The 1st ID was alerted to be prepared to deploy to the Mid East should circumstances warrant. *PANIC!!* - by all the plastic-armed officers. (Subsequent to that - it was declared a Court-Martial offense to be caught carrying a plastic weapon on training manuevers - so sayeth Major General George S Patton III, Deputy Commanding General, VII Corps) But, basically, weapons are assigned to individuals by MTOE position. "Commanders" usually carry a pistol. Platoon Leaders (lieutenants) carry M16s. Tankers carry pistols. 'Track Drivers' carry the old M2(?) [M3? --CDR] .45 grease gun. M60 Machine Gunners carry pistols. You're right in that a Captain company commander will carry a pistol - but a Captain assistant division G3 will probably carry a rifle. In Vietnam - since combat troops ran through jungle fatigues like dirty socks - most wore their fatigues without anything on them at all. Some units specifically operated wearing "sterile" fatigues. It was during Vietnam that the 'subdued' insignia came about. Name tags went from white w/black letters to OD w/black letters. The US Army tag went from black w/gold letters to OD w/black letters. All colored unit patches went 'subdued' with OD/Black. EM/NCO ranks went from gold chevrons on the sleeves to small black chevrons on the collar. Officer ranks went from white to black on the collar. All intended to be "reduced visibility" in combat. Today the camouflage BDUs (battle dress uniform) with subdued insignia makes it very very difficult to see ranks/unit insignia (except for the huge 1st CAV patch). However, (as seen in the Gulf) once a soldier puts on his Chemical Protective Overgarments - all insignia is covered up. > > sleep-shirt > A what? For use in the field? You got to be kidding. Oh yeah, one of those things that become a favorite of troops in the field. (like hot 'C' rations). Kind of a banlon/flannel 'polo' shirt, long sleeve, collar, pullover. Really nice to sleep in - during some cold German nights. Also comfortable to wear under your BDU shirt. Matter of fact I still wear my 'sleep shirts' when I go camping. Of 'course - OD in color. Good "tradin' material", too. mike schmitt