nzt1939@dsacg3.dsac.dla.mil (William M. Aldo) (05/15/91)
From: nzt1939@dsacg3.dsac.dla.mil (William M. Aldo) Re: Quiz answers >1. Name the only Battleship ever to torpedo another battleship. > HMS Rodney torpedoed the Bismarck during there battle. No flames intended, but..... Weren't the battleships too low on fuel to manuever for torpedo-shots? In fact, the battleships actually left for 'home' before Bismarck was torpedoed by HMS Dorsetshire, with Bismarck sinking shortly thereafter. This is where the British and Germans differ in their respective views as to why Bismarck sank (with British views stating that they sank her and German views stating that she was scuttled). The Germans have a valid point, in that while Bismarck is resting on the bot- tom, there doesn't appear to be much damage below the waterline (of course, alot of that area is obscur from view by resting right-side up;-);-) German pride at work, perhaps? On the other hand, with the pounding she took, she was still afloat...a wreck, but afloat. Comments?? -- Mark Aldo UUCP: (osu-cis)!dsacg1!waldo INTERNET: waldo@dsac.dla.mil Defense Logistics Agency Systems Automation Center | 614-238-8111 DSAC-ZTB, P.O.Box 1605, Columbus, Ohio (USA) 43216 | AV 850-8111 I'm not authorized to have an opinion....;-)
dlbres10@pc.usl.edu (Phil Fraering) (05/17/91)
From: dlbres10@pc.usl.edu (Phil Fraering) nzt1939@dsacg3.dsac.dla.mil (William M. Aldo) writes: >there doesn't appear to be much damage below the waterline (of course, >alot of that area is obscur from view by resting right-side up;-);-) German >pride at work, perhaps? On the other hand, with the pounding she took, she >was still afloat...a wreck, but afloat. Bismark's steering system was heavily damaged from at least one torpedo from a Swordfish, and British destroyers also performed torpedo attacks on the Bismark while it was still shooting (the shells were setting off their air-raid warning radars). Some damage below the waterline should be visible. -- Phil Fraering || Usenet (?):dlbres10@pc.usl.edu || YellNet: 318/365-5418
nzt1939@dsacg3.dsac.dla.mil (William M. Aldo) (05/20/91)
From: nzt1939@dsacg3.dsac.dla.mil (William M. Aldo) >>nzt1939@dsacg3.dsac.dla.mil (William M. Aldo) writes: >Bismark's steering system was heavily damaged from at least one torpedo >from a Swordfish, and British destroyers also performed torpedo attacks >on the Bismark while it was still shooting (the shells were setting off >their air-raid warning radars). > >Some damage below the waterline should be visible. I wasn't questioning whether Bismarck had been torpedoed (I know she was hit by several causing some damage)...I was questioning whether torpedoes had been fired at Bismarck by the battleships (i.e. Rodney, King George V, etc) during the final battle on the morning of 27 May '41. Bismarck is setting right-side up, but most area below waterline is buried. BTW, the destroyers did little damage with their torpedoes, other than to dis- rupt Bismarck's crew in their attempts to repair the 'jammed' steering gears. -- Mark Aldo UUCP: (osu-cis)!dsacg1!waldo INTERNET: waldo@dsac.dla.mil Defense Logistics Agency Systems Automation Center | 614-238-8111 DSAC-ZTB, P.O.Box 1605, Columbus, Ohio (USA) 43216 | AV 850-8111 I'm not authorized to have an opinion....;-)
nik@swindon.ingr.com (05/20/91)
From: st_nik!nik@swindon.ingr.com [17 quoted lines deleted. --CDR] I would recommend to alll interested in this subject the book published recently on the exploration of the Bismark wreck. This has a number of computer enhanced colour plates of the wreck as well artist impressions and discussions of the visible damage. There are several important points 1) Details of damage caused to the stern of the ship by the swordfish attack are difficult to ascertain as a portion of the ship from some distance aft of the 'D' turret has sheared off. Interestingly this seems to be a design feature of German WWII warships, both the Lutzow and Prinz Eugen suffered similar damage. 2) On the basis of the visible hull damage it seems likely that the Bismark was scuttled by her crew. However this point is moot as had they not done the RN undoubtedly would have. In fact it is difficult to think of many "Dreadnought" type ships from WWI or WWII that succumbed to shell fire except through catastrophic magazine explosion. Unfortunately I don't have the name of the book in question, I do recommend it, although like many other books it regards the BISMARK as having been the last word in battleship design. -- Nik Simpson Mail : nik@swindon.ingr.com Systems Consultant (UNIX). Intergraph UK Ltd.
wbt@cbema.att.com (William B Thacker) (05/22/91)
From: wbt@cbema.att.com (William B Thacker) In article <1991May16.052552.17198@amd.com> William Aldo writes: >Re: Quiz answers >>1. Name the only Battleship ever to torpedo another battleship. >> HMS Rodney torpedoed the Bismarck during there battle. > >Weren't the battleships too low on fuel to manuever for torpedo-shots? Well, Rodney was certainly getting low, but Bismarck had more than enough, given her circumstances; rudder locked and unable to steer straight. Of the battleships present, only Rodney carried torpedoes. >In fact, the battleships actually left for 'home' before Bismarck was >torpedoed by HMS Dorsetshire, with Bismarck sinking shortly thereafter. This is correct; nevertheless, during the gunnery engagement the Rodney did come very close (1600 yards, if memory serves; so close that at least one of her 16" guns jumped out of its cradle because of the low angle of elevation). That's well within torpedo range. I don't recall the exact number, but I believe Rodney fired 4 torpedoes. I'l add that these were 24" torpedoes, not the 21" variety carried by destroyers and cruisers of the period, and therefore carried a larger warhead. >The Germans have a valid point, in that while Bismarck is resting on the bot- >tom, there doesn't appear to be much damage below the waterline My understanding is that the pro-scuttling argument has gained support from the fact that the ship is intact. Apparently subdivided warships in watertight condition tend to implode from water pressure; the fact that Bismarck did not do so is taken to indicate that the watertight doors were open and therefore, she was scuttled. BTW, there is evidence of damage below the waterline; the stern is missing, having been weakened by the torpedo which damaged Bismarck's rudder and then broken off when she capsized. [Ahem! All of you off to soc.history or email for further discussions on this. You too, Bill. :-) --CDR] - - - - - - - - valuable coupon - - - - - - - clip and save - - - - - - - - Bill Thacker AT&T Network Systems - Columbus wbt@cbnews.att.com "C" combines the power of assembly language with the flexibility of assembly language.