marco@email.ncsc.navy.mil (Barbarisi) (05/24/91)
From: Barbarisi <marco@email.ncsc.navy.mil> I am not sure whether or not this has been pointed out, but the "C" in US aircraft carrier designations (CV, CVA, CVN, etc...) comes from the fact that early production carriers were converted battlecruisers. Namely, the original Yorktown and Lexington were designed to be battlecruisers. Under that famous treaty signed in the 1920's (Washington Treaty? Burlington Treaty?), the signatory powers agreed to limit the number of large gun-toting warships in their arsenals. At the time, the Lexington and the Yorktwon were partially completed; presumably the plan was to designate them CB or CH or something. Due to the treaty, they could not be completed as battlecruisers. Due to a (glaring in hindsight) loophole in the treaty, they could be built as aircraft carriers and so they were finished as such. Thus their designation was changed to CV - Cruiser, aViation (the logical choice - CA - was already in use, but as every one knows, there is logic, illogic, and then there is US Navy logic :-). Marco Barbarisi marco@email.ncsc.navy.mil
ab3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Allan Bourdius) (05/25/91)
From: Allan Bourdius <ab3o+@andrew.cmu.edu> Aircraft Carriers were called "CV" because they weren't called "aircraft carriers" at first, they were "aircraft cruisers." This is why the Lexington and Saratoga (CV's 2 and 3) were built with 8 8" guns in four twin-mount turrets. In fact, many countries refer to aircraft carriers as some type of cruiser. The Royal Navy called the Invincible-class of VSTOL carrier as a "anti-submarine cruiser" to get funding railroaded through Parliament. The Soviet Union classified the Kiev class as a "aircraft carrying cruiser" to circumvent the unofficial agreement that said no capital ships could pass through the Hellespont. This tactic has since been discarded with the advent of the Tiblisi class. -- Allan Bourdius [MIDN 2/C (Marine Option)/Brother, Phi Kappa Theta Fraternity] ab3o+@andrew.cmu.edu or 1069 Morewood Avenue, Pittsburgh, PA 15213 The opinions in this post/mail are only those of the author, nobody else.
dmc@otto.yerkes.uchicago.edu (Dave Cole) (05/25/91)
From: dmc@otto.yerkes.uchicago.edu (Dave Cole) >battlecruisers. Namely, the original Yorktown and Lexington were >designed to be battlecruisers. Under that famous treaty signed in >the 1920's (Washington Treaty? Burlington Treaty?), the signatory >powers agreed to limit the number of large gun-toting warships in >their arsenals. At the time, the Lexington and the Yorktwon were >partially completed; presumably the plan was to designate them CB or >CH or something. Due to the treaty, they could not be completed as >battlecruisers. Due to a (glaring in hindsight) loophole in the >treaty, they could be built as aircraft carriers and so they were >finished as such. I'd just like to point out that the Saratoga (not Yorktown) and Lexington would have been battlecruisers (that's BC, not CB, usually, although since the USN has never had a BC, who knows?) but were converted to aircraft carriers not under a loophole but specifically as allowed by the treaty. Japan was allowed to keep Akagi and Amagi (replaced by Kaga when Amagi was destroyed in an earthquake), the US Saratoga and Lexington, and the UK Glorious and Furious, I believe. Dave Cole dmc@otto.yerkes.uchicago.edu
002@pnet16.cts.com (J.W.Cupp Lcdr/Usn) (05/30/91)
From: 002@pnet16.cts.com (J.W.Cupp Lcdr/Usn)
I don't think the Soviet Union has given up calling their largest ships
cruisers...I read in the Naval Institute "Proceedings" there was a flap
when one reported called the latest TBILISI class an aircraft-carrier.
The Navy officially rebutted that, stating that it was more accurately
an "aircraft-carrying cruiser."
The agreements concerning ships passing through Turkey are quite
official, and as far as I've ever been told scrupulously adhered to by
the Soviet Navy.
J. W. Cupp
--
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I am solely and personally responsible for the all of the content of the above
post. It is all merely my opinion, and not to be construed as anything else.wbt@cbema.att.com (William B Thacker) (05/31/91)
From: wbt@cbema.att.com (William B Thacker) Barbarisi <marco@email.ncsc.navy.mil> writes: >I am not sure whether or not this has been pointed out, but the >"C" in US aircraft carrier designations (CV, CVA, CVN, etc...) comes >from the fact that early production carriers were converted battlecruisers. Others have already addressed this, and I agree; the designation seems to have come from the fact that the carriers were intended to supplement cruisers (as fleet scouts), hence were "aircraft cruisers." If Marco has any supporting references, though, I'd be interested, because I've not seen the above clearly stated anywhere, though it appears obvious. As further evidence, consider that CV-1, USS Langley, began life as AC-3, the fleet collier Jupiter. During conversion to a carrier in 1920 she was redesignated AV-1 USS Langley, then eventually, CV-1. Clearly, no relation to a battlecruiser can be established here. -- Bill Thacker AT&T Network Systems - Columbus wbt@cbnews.att.com
rick@pavlov.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Richard H. Miller) (06/16/91)
From: rick@pavlov.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Richard H. Miller) dmc@otto.yerkes.uchicago.edu (Dave Cole) writes: > I'd just like to point out that the Saratoga (not Yorktown) and Lexington > would have been battlecruisers (that's BC, not CB, usually, although since > the USN has never had a BC, who knows?) Actually, according to the lists I have seen, battlecruisers were to carry a type code of CC, not BC. The CBs were the large cruisers of WWI [Alaska class] which carried 12" guns. In any case, as others have pointed out, the CV-1 for the Langley set the basic type code since aircraft carriers were to be part of the scouting force instead of the battle force. -- Richard H. Miller Email: rick@bcm.tmc.edu Asst. Dir. for Technical Support Voice: (713)798-3532 Baylor College of Medicine US Mail: One Baylor Plaza, 302H Houston, Texas 77030