[sci.military] Military Seaplanes

wcsswag@ccs.carleton.ca (Alex Klaus) (06/12/91)

From: wcsswag@ccs.carleton.ca (Alex Klaus)


I was just wondering about the military use of seaplanes. I the JMSDf,
and Soviets use them.(Shin Mewia, Be-12Mail, repsectively).  But what
about other navis/airforces, why aren't using them.  Secondly, why was
the Martin Seamaster, program cancelled. Are seaplanes are viable
and/or effetive in term ASW etc, for used. OR are there other reason
behind their lack of popularity.

	[So who wants to tell about the ill-fated sea-landing fighter
	 plane this time around? :-)  --CDR]

Thanks in advance
Alex klaus
wcsswag@ccs.carleton.ca

jfb@ihlpm.att.com (Joseph F Baugher) (06/14/91)

From: jfb@ihlpm.att.com (Joseph F Baugher)


> 	[So who wants to tell about the ill-fated sea-landing fighter
> 	 plane this time around? :-)  --CDR]

Ok, I'll bite.  I posted this article on the Convair F2Y Sea Dart in
sci.military a few months back, but here it is again.  Enjoy!

In 1948, the Navy launched a competition for the design of a supersonic
seaplane interceptor.  In 1951, Convair was awarded a contract for two
prototypes with a delta wing planform, a single delta-shaped tail, and
a watertight hull.  The aircraft would land on a pair of waterskis
which retracted into recesses within the fuselage.  The skis were
extended for landings and takeoffs, but were retracted for flight or
for mooring.

Pending the availability of more powerful engines, the first prototype
was fitted with two side-by-side afterburning Westinghouse J-34 engines
of 3400 pounds of thrust each.  The engines were fed by two intakes
mounted on either side of the fuselage, above the wings and behind the
cockpit.

The Navy had such confidence with the design that they ordered 4 YF2Y-1
pre- production and twelve production F2Y-1 aircraft before the first
prototype had flown.  These were to be powered by a pair of J-46 jets
of 6000 pounds of thrust each.

The XF2Y-1 prototype took to the air for the first time on April 9,
1953.  The first tests revealed (as expected) that the aircraft was
severely under- powered for its weight.  In addition, the waterskis
vibrated continuously during takeoff and landing.  In order to cure the
vibration problem, a single waterski arrangement was also tried.  This
did not seem to improve things by any appreciable amount.

The YF2Y-1, with its more powerful J-46 engines, joined the test
program in early 1954.  Convair's test pilot Charles Richbourg took the
YF2Y-1 through the sound barrier while in a shallow dive on August 3,
1954.  This was the first time that a seaplane ever went supersonic.
However, Richbourg was killed that November while demonstrating the
YF2Y-1 in an air show over San Diego Bay.  Apparently, the aircraft got
pushed past its safety margin and the plane disintegrated in midair.
Bits and pieces of flaming debris fell into the bay.  I still remember
the rather vivid photos of this accident that appeared in Life
magazine.

In the meantime, the Navy had been gradually losing interest in the Sea
Dart project.  The Navy was already planning for the introduction of
supersonic carrier-based fighters, and the problems with the vibrating
waterskis seemed to be insoluble.  The Navy cancelled its order for the
production lot of 12 F2Y-1 fighters in early 1954, even before the
first of the YF2Y-1 service test aircraft had been delivered.  The
fatal crash of the YF2Y-1 aircraft later that year, with the
surrounding bad publicity, did not help matters, and, in the event,
only three of the four YF2Ys ordered were actually delivered.

Also cancelled was the F2Y-2, which had been envisaged as the
definitive production version of the Sea Dart.  It had a single
waterski, an area-ruled fuselage, plus a single afterburning Pratt and
Whitney J-75 turbojet of 15,000 pounds of thrust.

Evaulation of the surviving Sea Dart aircraft continued until 1957,
when the program was finally terminated.  One YF2Y-1 aircraft is on
display at the Naval Air Test Center Museum at Patuxent River, Maryland.

There is a rather odd postscript to the Sea Dart story.  In 1962, five
years after the official termination of the Sea Dart project, the Navy
was ordered to redesignate all of its fighter aircraft in order to
conform to the new tri-service unified aircraft designation scheme.
For some obscure reason, the Sea Dart was assigned the designation
F-7.  Perhaps some clerk in the Defense Department had some fond
memories of this warplane, and decided to honor it posthumously with an
official F-number.

Specs for the YF2Y-1:
       Gross weight: 16,500 lbs.    Maximum takeoff weight: 21,500 lbs.  
       Maximum speed: 695 mph at 8000feet,  825 mph at 36,000 ft. 
       Climb rate: 35,000 feet in 1.7 minutes.  Range 513 miles
       (these are estimated performance figures, which I don't think were ever
       achieved in test)
       The Sea Dart was never equipped with any armament.  

Source: The American Fighter, E. Angellucci and P. Bowers

Joe Baugher				
AT&T Bell Laboratories     200 Park Plaza     Naperville, Illinois 60566-7050
(708) 713 4548	    ihlpm!jfb       jfb200@cbnewsd.att.com			

john@newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III) (06/15/91)

From: john@newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III)


> From: wcsswag@ccs.carleton.ca (Alex Klaus)
> I was just wondering about the military use of seaplanes.

> [ So who wants to tell about the ill-fated sea-landing fighter
> plane this time around? :-)  --CDR ]

Speaking of the Sea Dart, I was at Willow Grove NAS about 4 weeks ago,
and the Sea Dart was missing from the display area.  Does anyone know
where the Sea Dart is and what (if anything) is being done with it?

For those who have never been to Willow Grove, it is just north of
Philly a few miles off of I-70 (exit 27).  Willow Grove was once used
as a testing grounds for captured planes.  They still have two very
rare sea planes (one NAZI, the other Japanese), and an Me-262 (NAZI jet
fighter/light bomber).  There are a few US planes on display also (F8U,
SaberJet, F-80).  Its too bad that these planes are sitting outside.

Nearby is the Navy Advanced Development Center.  I saw a Grumman A-6
mounted to a tower with a gimble mount.  The plane was about 40' off of
the ground.  It appeared to me that they used it for radar testing, but
I am only guessing.  Anyone know for sure?

-- 
John A. Weeks III               (612) 942-6969             john@newave.mn.org
NeWave Communications, Ltd.                        ...uunet!tcnet!newave!john

nanis@llex.ll.mit.edu ( Jeff Nanis) (06/20/91)

From: nanis@llex.ll.mit.edu ( Jeff Nanis)
In article <1991Jun18.074207.14461@amd.com> john@newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III) writes:

>Nearby is the Navy Advanced Development Center.  

	Actually, I believe it's the Naval _Air_ Development Center.
--
Jeff Nanis                               Radars 'r' us.  
nanis@ll.mit.edu                         An official opinion? Not on my life.