stump@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Robert E Mitchell) (06/27/91)
From: "Robert E Mitchell" <stump@unix.cis.pitt.edu> Hi there. Sorry to bother you all with such mundane requests, but my friend and I got into a "discussion" over what the Blue Angels flew before the F-18. He insists that they flew F-4 Phantoms. I beleive they flew A-4 Skyhawks. I'm almost sure of it and there is 20 bucks in it for me if I'm right. I'm not sure if the Blue Angels ever flew F-4's because to me it doesn't appear to be a good choice as an acrobatic/stunt/showplane. I remember it being fondly referred to as the flying brick. It doesn't matter if F-4's were indeed ever used, although it would be nice to know. Just tell me what came before the F-18. I need lots of answeres from lots of people, and I need them fast. It would also be nice to know what planes the Blue Angels have flown since their inception. PLEASE respond. can anyone help? Stump PS E-mail is fine if you prefer not to post. It would also provide easy proof to my obstinate friend. Thanks a ton.
shafer@skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) (06/28/91)
From: Mary Shafer <shafer@skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov>
Robert E Mitchell (stump@unix.cis.pitt.edu) writes:
Hi there. Sorry to bother you all with such mundane requests, but
my friend and I got into a "discussion" over what the Blue Angels
flew before the F-18. He insists that they flew F-4 Phantoms. I
beleive they flew A-4 Skyhawks. I'm almost sure of it and there is
20 bucks in it for me if I'm right. I'm not sure if the Blue
Angels ever flew F-4's because to me it doesn't appear to be a good
choice as an acrobatic/stunt/showplane. I remember it being fondly
referred to as the flying brick.
They flew F9Fs until they switched (mid-60s) to F-4s and in the
mid-70s went to A-4s. In the early 80s they went to F-18s.
The Thunderbirds also flew the F-4E and the F-4 I flew in was one of
them. The T-birds went to T-38s and then F-16s at about the same time
as the Navy went to A-4s and F-18s.
You've got a lot of nerve badmouthing the F-4. Just because it's
big, ugly, and takes two counties (those little counties on the East
Coast, not real counties like Kern) to turn in, you've got no call to
criticize it. "Flying brick" indeed. That's "double ugly" you're
insulting.
To be a little more factual here, the services have always maintained
that the display teams only fly regular operational fighters in
routine-ish maneuvers, so they had to fly the F-4 at that time.
Although the F-4 can't fly the tight patterns that the A-4 and F-16
do, I found it to be a more awesome aircraft.
--
Mary Shafer shafer@skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov ames!skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov!shafer
NASA Ames Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
Of course I don't speak for NASA
"Turn to kill, not to engage." CDR Willie Driscolljfb@ihlpm.att.com (Joseph F Baugher) (06/28/91)
From: jfb@ihlpm.att.com (Joseph F Baugher) In article <1991Jun27.013045.26591@cbnews.cb.att.com>, "Robert E Mitchell" <stump@unix.cis.pitt.edu> writes: > > > From: "Robert E Mitchell" <stump@unix.cis.pitt.edu> > > Hi there. Sorry to bother you all with such mundane requests, but my friend > and I got into a "discussion" over what the Blue Angels flew before the F-18. > He insists that they flew F-4 Phantoms. I beleive they flew A-4 Skyhawks. I'm > almost sure of it and there is 20 bucks in it for me if I'm right. I'm not > sure if the Blue Angels ever flew F-4's because to me it doesn't appear > to be a good choice as an acrobatic/stunt/showplane. I remember it being > fondly referred to as the flying brick. It doesn't matter if F-4's were > indeed ever used, although it would be nice to know. Just tell me what came > before the F-18. I need lots of answeres from lots of people, and I need them > fast. It would also be nice to know what planes the Blue Angels have flown > since their inception. PLEASE respond. can anyone help? Here's a roster of the aircraft which served with the Blue Angels Flight demonstration team: Aircraft Dates Grumman F6F-5 Hellcat 1946 (for a few weeks) Grumman F8F-2 Bearcat 1946-1949 Grumman F9F-2 Panther 1949-1951 Grumman F9F-5 Panther 1951-1953 Grumman F9F-6 Cougar 1953 (for a few weeks) Grumman F9F-5 Panther 1953-1954 Grumman F9F-8 Cougar 1954-1957 Grumman F11F-1 (F-11A) Tiger 1957-1969 McDonnell F-4J Phantom 1969-1973 Douglas A-4F Skyhawk 1973-1987 McDonnell-Douglas F/A-18A Hornet 1987-present References: McDonnell-Douglas Aircraft Since 1920, Rene J. Francillon Grumman Aircraft since 1929, Rene J. Francillon Joe Baugher AT&T Bell Laboratories 200 Park Plaza P. O. Box 3050 Naperville, Illinois 60566-7050 (708) 713-4548 ihlpm!jfb jfb200@cbnewsd.att.com
scw@ollie.SEAS.UCLA.EDU (Stephen C. Woods) (06/28/91)
From: scw@ollie.SEAS.UCLA.EDU (Stephen C. Woods) >From: "Robert E Mitchell" <stump@unix.cis.pitt.edu> > Hi there. Sorry to bother you all with such mundane requests, but my friend >and I got into a "discussion" over what the Blue Angels flew before the F-18. >He insists that they flew F-4 Phantoms. I beleive they flew A-4 Skyhawks. I'm >almost sure of it and there is 20 bucks in it for me if I'm right. I'm not You win. The Blue Angels changed from the F-4 to the A-4 in the 70's because of the oil crises, the Thunderbirds changed for the F-4 to the T-38 a the same time (I believe that it was over the winter of 1974-1975). IMHO it was both a gain and a loss, the A-4 could do things that a Phantom could only dream about, and in a smaller airspace. The Phantom, on the other hand, was simply majestic and awesome. Sort of like the difference between a Ferrari and a Grand National stock car. -- ----- Stephen C. Woods; UCLA SEASNET; 2567 BH;LA CA 90024; (213)-825-8614 UUCP: ...{ibmsupt,ncar!cepu}!ollie}!scw Internet:scw@SEAS.UCLA.EDU
carey@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Charles Carey (SVER)) (06/29/91)
From: carey@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Charles Carey (SVER)) In article <1991Jun27.013045.26591@cbnews.cb.att.com>, stump@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Robert E Mitchell) writes... > > > Hi there. Sorry to bother you all with such mundane requests, but my friend >and I got into a "discussion" over what the Blue Angels flew before the F-18. The Blue Angels did fly A-4s before the current F-18, then (I think) F-4s before that and F-11s before that. On the A-4s I have no doubt, I saw them! The Thunderbirds did fly F-4E s in the early 70s, after F-105s but before T-38s. They put on quite a show! As a sidelight, when I served with the 4TFW, we had two of the former T'bird F-4s. THey were NOT standard F-4E: no gun, no Weapons Release Computer. THey could drop bombs visually and launch missiles. The smoke generator was removed but the control panel was still in the cockpit. They had been repainted in standard SEA lizard-flage when I saw them. Charlie