erc@pai.UUCP (Eric Johnson) (05/05/89)
I just received a letter today from the IEEE Computer Society. It was apparently addressed to ACM members. It read, in part: "Dear Eric F. Johnson: "Your membership in the ACM proves not only a commitment to excellence in your career but also a quest for knowledge that the IEEE Computer Society is particularly designed to satisfy." [Description of the wonderful benefits deleted.] "Interested? As you can see, membership in the Computer Society so perfectly compliments your participation in the ACM that you are probably asking yourself why you haven't joined sooner!" Ah, but I have. I believe I've been a member of the IEEE and the Computer Society since 1984. I also believe that there used to be a discount on renewals for members who were also members of the ACM. I took that discount whenever it was available. "Barry W. Johnson, Vice President, Membership" Obviously the IEEE has an ACM membership list. I only ask that they please cross-reference this list against their own membership lists, since: 1) I get enough junk mail as it is. 2) If I get reams of junk mail from an organization, I may miss those renewal notices (they get lost in all the junk letters from the same organization). 3) It must cost the IEEE to send out these letters. Why are they wasting their money (money that comes in part from my dues)? 4) Trees are killed to produce these letters. If the text said that the letter was printed on recycled paper, maybe I wouldn't mind so much. I only hope that they send one (or more) of these letters to Barry. -Eric -- Eric F. Johnson | Phone +1 612-894-0313 | Are we Prime Automation,Inc | UUCP: bungia!pai!erc | having 12201 Wood Lake Drive | UUCP: sun!tundra!pai!erc | fun Burnsville, MN 55337 USA | DOMAIN: erc@pai.mn.org | yet?
duncan@dduck.ctt.bellcore.com (Scott Duncan) (05/05/89)
In article <495@pai.UUCP> erc@pai.UUCP (Eric Johnson) writes: > >Obviously the IEEE has an ACM membership list. I only ask that >they please cross-reference this list against their own membership >lists, since: [...] >3) It must cost the IEEE to send out these letters. Why are they >wasting their money (money that comes in part from my dues)? [...] While I can't argue with Eric's other three points, this one does not seem to actually work out in fact, though it seems logical that it should, i.e., that membership list coordination would save money. It is my understanding that the effort (human and machine) that it would take to coordinate such an effort (especially when some of the lists are made available ONLY as labels, not electronically) is very large compared to the bulk rate non-profit mailing costs (and cost of materials mailed). I used to work for a software vendor whose clients included companies with large mailing lists. Mailing list maintenance was/is a large problem that they seemed to bypass due to the cost benefit. (Image cost is, apparently, not considered a problem or not a costly one.) An example are the subscription records of a magazine publisher. If the subscription is in the name of one family member, but gets paid by another, with perhaps a different mailing address, things can get very messy. The number of renewals, cancellations, etc. that come in are very large, so maintaining one's own list is difficult enough without the worry of correlating it with other lists for marketing purposes. So while it sounds like it makes sense to do this, it does not, usually, from cost perspective if you're a big enough organization to afford that kind of mailing in the first place. In the case of the IEEE, I might assume that they and the ACM could exchange mailing lists via labels. Did the label on the letter you got look suspiciously like an ACM label, i.e., did it have your ACM membership number on it? In any event, logic and common sense do not seem to hold in the case of mailing lists! Speaking only for myself, of course, I am... Scott P. Duncan (duncan@ctt.bellcore.com OR ...!bellcore!ctt!duncan) (Bellcore, 444 Hoes Lane RRC 1H-210, Piscataway, NJ 08854) (201-699-3910 (w) 201-463-3683 (h))
mrb@sei.cmu.edu (Mario Barbacci) (05/06/89)
Eric Johnson posted a message complaining about receiving an invitation to join the computer society even though he is already a member. I forwarded Eric Johnson's meesage to Barry Johnson, the Computer Society VP for membership and this is Barry's reply to me (posted with his permision). Barry is replying to Eric directly. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Barry W. Johnson" <bwj@eesun6.ee.virginia.edu> To: mrb@sei.cmu.edu Date: Fri, 5 May 89 12:01:39 EDT Subject: Re: Computer Society recruiting campaigns Mario, We do cross reference the membership lists!! Before we do a mailing we do what's called a "merge/purge" that is intended to prevent exactly what Eric is talking about. I am not sure why his name fell through the cracks! We have always been very sensitive about people getting letters if they are already members or of people getting multiple letters because they show up on more than one of our lists. We put A LOT of effort into this aspect of the promotion process. I apologize to Eric for any inconvenience !! Thanks, Barry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I would like to add a personal note. One of the reasons duplicate mailings happen is because people use different mailing addresses for different magazines (or profesional societies). I know folks that use their home address for some Computer Society subscriptions and their work address for other CS things (the CS staff hate this but are too polite to say anything). Sometimes it is something trivial like using/dropping a middle initial. The technology for discovering mailing lists duplicates is not very sophisticated -- "string matching" is about it :-) and screwups are bound to happen. I sometimes do this on purpose, I use various middle initials to track down the origins of unsolicited mail -- try it sometime... it is amazing how quickly these lists spread around. I too get ocassional invitations to join the Computer Society but I don't get angry, instead I pass them along to people who might be interested in joining. I suggest we should all do the same. Mario Barbacci Board of Governors IEEE Computer Society -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mario R. Barbacci, arpanet: mrb@sei.cmu.edu uunet: ...!harvard!sei.cmu.edu!mrb Software Engineering Institute, CMU, Pittsburgh PA 15213, (412) 268-7704
jsloan@thor.UUCP (John Sloan) (05/08/89)
From article <15908@bellcore.bellcore.com>, by duncan@dduck.ctt.bellcore.com (Scott Duncan): > In article <495@pai.UUCP> erc@pai.UUCP (Eric Johnson) writes: >>Obviously the IEEE has an ACM membership list. I only ask that >>they please cross-reference this list against their own membership >>lists, since: > While I can't argue with Eric's other three points, this one does not seem to > actually work out in fact, though it seems logical that it should, i.e., that > membership list coordination would save money. In addition to the points made by Duncan as to why the intuitively attractive strategy of mailing list coordination is not cost effective, it is also darn hard, even if the information is all in electronic form, to coordinate names and addresses. I once worked with a group doing analysis of census data, and this included matching up census and voting data (did you know there are computer records of your voting? Not _how_ you voted, of course, but which election you voted in and what precinct you voted at?) and data from other sources, e.g. proprietary databases of marketing information, etc. Variant spellings of names, e.g. J. L. Smith John Smith J L Smith John L. Smith J. Smith John L Smith John Smith, Jr. John Smith Jr (what, is his last name Jr?) John Smith Jr. etc., and even worse, variants of addresses, e.g. 3171 Research Park 3171 Research Blvd 3171 Research Blvd. 3171 Research Blvd. 3171 Research Boulevard 3171 Research etc., required a substantial amount of code, with some clever heuristics, to produce matches between the databases. Seems we aren't very consistent about how we write our names and addresses, and neither are we very accurate about how we type those into the computer terminal as we read the handwritten information. Of course, there are always some pathological cases where there really are two people with similar names (John Smith and Jane Smith, both listed as J Smith, one at 131 15th Dr. and the other at 131 15th St.) that caused no end of headaches. Coordinating mailing lists is simply not cost effective, unless there is some common unique identifier, e.g. the ACM keeps both your ACM and your IEEE number. Of course, you can make this work for you: use a different middle initial on all your magazine subscriptions, and then trace who sold their subscriber list to whom. John Sloan +1 513 259 1384 jsloan%spots.wright.edu@relay.cs.net Wright State University Research Center ...!uunet!ncrlnk!wright!jsloan 3171 Research Blvd., Kettering, OH 45420 ...!osu-cis!wright!jsloan Logical Disclaimer: belong(opinions,jsloan). belong(opinions,_):-!,fail.
jsloan@thor.UUCP (John Sloan) (05/08/89)
And I guess while we're at it, I'd better mention that Social Security Numbers are not, and were never intended to be, unique. There, that should stir up some discussion. John Sloan +1 513 259 1384 jsloan%spots.wright.edu@relay.cs.net Wright State University Research Center ...!uunet!ncrlnk!wright!jsloan 3171 Research Blvd., Kettering, OH 45420 ...!osu-cis!wright!jsloan Logical Disclaimer: belong(opinions,jsloan). belong(opinions,_):-!,fail.
hundt@paul.rutgers.edu (Thomas M. Hundt) (05/08/89)
|We do cross reference the membership lists!! Before we do a mailing we do |what's called a "merge/purge" that is intended to prevent exactly what Eric |is talking about. I am not sure why his name fell through the cracks! We I'm very glad to hear this; if I were running things I would certainly do this sort of thing; a large organization like IEEE looks monolithic and impersonal enough just because of its size without slapping people in the face with redundant and inappropriate mailings. |I sometimes do this on purpose, I use various middle initials to track down |the origins of unsolicited mail -- try it sometime... it is amazing how |quickly these lists spread around. I've got a friend who has it down to a science. He prints up batches of mailing labels, with successive "apartment numbers" at the end of his address, eg. "309 Elm St. #55". When he sends out some mail, such as a magazine subscription form, he slaps one of these on and then writes in his log book what this number was and who it went to. Later, he can track down where the junk mail came from. Myself, I made up several company names to put on trade magazines' subscription forms, to help get free subscriptions. A different name for just about every one! So now, when I get mail with a bogus company name on it, I can just toss it right into the recycling pile immediately. (Note: always open the survey letters, sometimes they send you money. Don't return the survey though, or they won't send more. :-) -Tom Hundt
sshankar@umn-cs.CS.UMN.EDU (Subash Shankar) (05/09/89)
In article <3303@ag.sei.cmu.edu> mrb@sei.cmu.edu (Mario Barbacci) writes: >We do cross reference the membership lists!! Before we do a mailing we do >what's called a "merge/purge" that is intended to prevent exactly what Eric >is talking about. I am not sure why his name fell through the cracks! We >[discussion about possible reasons for falling through the cracks] I too have the same problem, with redundant mailings. And I have the same spelling and address on all my technical society memberships (both IEEE and ACM). So, I suspect that there is another reason for falling through the cracks, in my case at least
eli@spdcc.COM (Steve Elias) (05/09/89)
i was bitten by this membership drive, too. ACM started the trouble
by getting my middle initial wrong. Computer Society then solicited
me for membership by offering a great deal on their magazines. i took
the offer, thinking that it would be added on to my regular computer
society membership. no such luck. instead, i became two separate people
to the computer society -- with addresses differing by only a single
linefeed character.
it took almost 8 months to get everything straightened out, after all
sorts of confused correspondence. phew.
--
...... Steve Elias (eli@spdcc.com);(6172399406); {}
{ Apple: keep your lawyers off of our computers! }heiser@iis.UUCP (Gernot Heiser) (05/11/89)
In article <3303@ag.sei.cmu.edu> mrb@sei.cmu.edu (Mario Barbacci) writes: } }From: "Barry W. Johnson" <bwj@eesun6.ee.virginia.edu> }Subject: Re: Computer Society recruiting campaigns } }Mario, } }We do cross reference the membership lists!! Before we do a mailing we do }what's called a "merge/purge" that is intended to prevent exactly what Eric }is talking about. I am not sure why his name fell through the cracks! We }have always been very sensitive about people getting letters if they are }already members or of people getting multiple letters because they show up }on more than one of our lists. We put A LOT of effort into this aspect of }the promotion process. I apologize to Eric for any inconvenience !! I suggest besides recuting ACMers as members, the IEEE should also try to find some good programmer among them. My name also "falls through the cracks" (twice so far, and I get BOTH institutions mail at the office). -- Gernot Heiser Phone: +41 1/256 23 48 Integrated Systems Laboratory CSNET/ARPA: heiser%iis.ethz.ch@relay.cs.net ETH Zuerich UUCP (new): heiser@iis.uucp CH-8092 Zuerich, Switzerland UUCP (old): {uunet,mcvax,...}!iis!heiser
mark@jhereg.Jhereg.MN.ORG (Mark H. Colburn) (05/12/89)
In article <508@thor.wright.EDU> jsloan@thor.UUCP writes: >And I guess while we're at it, I'd better mention that Social >Security Numbers are not, and were never intended to be, unique. >There, that should stir up some discussion. Ahem. Exuse me? It really depends on what you mean by unique. However, for each social security number which is currently assigned there had better be exactly one living person which corresponds to that social security number. This does not rule out re-using social security numbers once a person dies and all related social security benefits for that person have been paid. The reason is that your social security number is essentially an account number for a "savings account", if you will. At any time, you may request a balance on your social security account. If there is more that one living person who has the same social security number, benefits will not be paid to one of the holders (or at least should not be paid, it is the government you know :-) There, that should quiet things back down again :-) -- Mark H. Colburn mark@jhereg.mn.org Minnetech Consulting, Inc.