rcd@opus.UUCP (Dick Dunn) (08/22/84)
I'm constantly amazed at the number of people who drive at dusk with
parking lights on.
In Colorado, it is strictly illegal to drive (i.e., be moving) with only
your parking lights on. Either you're sitting still and you have parking
lights on, or you're moving and you need headlights. I can't figure out
where people get the idea that it's OK to be going down the road at 40 MPH
with PARKING lights--what the hell does the name mean, anyway.
Are there states in which it is allowed to drive with parking lights, that
would have given these folks the idea that it's OK?
--
Dick Dunn {hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd (303)444-5710 x3086
...Are you making this up as you go along?res@ihuxn.UUCP (Rich Strebendt) (08/24/84)
I do not have a copy of the "Rules of the Road" for Illinois drivers, but I am certain that it is illegal to drive in this state with only parking lights. I, too, am amazed at the clowns who do 65 on the highways around here after sunset with only parking lights on. Can anyone present a reasoned and reasonable defense for this kind of stupid stunt? Rich Strebendt ihuxn!res
bees@drutx.UUCP (DavisRB) (08/24/84)
Dick, the reasoning behind driving with parking lights on is the same reasoning used for not signaling lane changes, hogging the left lane, etc... stupidity, sloppiness and the like. These bozos can pass the driver test (which doesn't take much), but don't care to remember what they might have read in the driver's manual. They drive around half asleep with one finger on the wheel (another in their nose) and their left foot resting on the brake and almost have a cow when they see someone "suddenly" appear in their rearview mirror. Speaking of mirrors... I have a little game for y'all. Every time you drive up behind someone, on the road or at a stop, look in their side and rear mirror. Do you see their eyes? If not, then you can bet they don't see you! You'll be amazed at how many people don't bother (or know how) to adjust their mirrors. It's no wonder they freak out when "suddenly" there are 20 cars behind them! Ray Davis ATT-ISL Denver UNIX Systems Group drutx!bees (303)538-3991
hrs@houxb.UUCP (H.SILBIGER) (08/24/84)
In New Jersey it is illegal to drive with parking lights only, although many people do it. Headlights are mandatory when visibility is reduced.
seifert@ihuxl.UUCP (D.A. Seifert) (08/24/84)
Well, if you call them "parking lights", then I guess you *wouldn't*
be able to understand moving with them on. What do you call the
lever which activates the brakes non-hydrauliclly? Do you call
it a "parking brake"? Well, then I guess you'd better only use
it for parking!
There are many times when running lights are the optimum. This
occurs when it is dark enough that you need lights on the car
so that others can see you from far enough away, but not dark
enough that you can see better with your headlights on. At these
times, headlights *do* often cause glare to oncoming traffic,
so why have them on?
Yes, you can see cars farther away with headlights on than with
just the running lights on, but there is a limit to how far away it
does any *real* good to see them. The increased glare is definately
a baddie.
Why don't you complain about the *real* problem: people running around
in the dark with NO lights on, and one-eyed cars, and high-beams
when not appropriate, and miss-adjusted lights, and the absurd
headlight laws in the US. (At least it looks like they're *finally*
going to make it legal to have real headlights. Guess GE finally
figured out how to make them. (*) )
(*) An important member of the committee that was holding back
decent headlights was from, guess which major manufacturer of
sealed beam headlights?)
--
_____
/_____\ how in blue blazes do they expect a EE to cook on a gas stove?
/_______\
|___| Snoopy
____|___|_____ ihnp4!ihuxl!seifertres@ihuxn.UUCP (Rich Strebendt) (08/24/84)
Re: | There are many times when running lights are the optimum. This | occurs when it is dark enough that you need lights on the car | so that others can see you from far enough away, but not dark | enough that you can see better with your headlights on. Bull. Parking lights (as named in my Owners Manual) can only be seen from a few car lengths away. That is NEVER "far enough away" from an on-coming car at any practical automobile speed. | At these | times, headlights *do* often cause glare to oncoming traffic, | so why have them on? Not so, unless the "headlights" are 5000 watt mercury arc lights. Indeed, the headlights seem quite dim in the half light of dusk and grow in apparent intensity as the ambient light level becomes lower. | Yes, you can see cars farther away with headlights on than with | just the running lights on, That is the whole idea of turning lights on before they are needed to let you see the road and environs! | but there is a limit to how far away it | does any *real* good to see them. I want on-coming traffic to be able to see me as early and as far away as possible without causing nearer drivers unnecessary discomfort. Hence, at dusk I turn on the low beams and mumble in disgust at the bozos who think that turning on parking lights makes them at all visible. | The increased glare is definately | a baddie. Not to me or to anyone with whom I have previously discussed this problem. | Why don't you complain about the *real* problem: people running around | in the dark with NO lights on, and one-eyed cars, and high-beams | when not appropriate, and miss-adjusted lights, AHAH!!! We agree!!! | and the absurd | headlight laws in the US. (At least it looks like they're *finally* | going to make it legal to have real headlights. If by "real headlights" you mean the ultra high intensity jobs that are illegal in most states, then I part company with you again. For on-coming traffic those lights really are a bad scene. I have often wished that my car had a 50 caliber mounted in the nose to extinguish those kinds of lights when I have encountered them. Problem is that they are so blinding that I would probably miss the lights and get the driver ... but that probably would not decrease the total intelligence level of the world much (might even raise it!) [:-)]. Rich Strebendt ...!ihnp4!ihuxn!res
jhillis@ihuxx.UUCP (jhillis) (08/24/84)
Here in Illinois, the idiots drive with only their parking lights on also, in violation of state law. Even if it weren't against the law, I can not fathom why anyone would want to travel at highway speeds while giving others the impression they were parked. It is also against the law to drive in Georgia or Florida with parking lights only, at least years ago when I lived there. Jeff Hillis ihuxf!jhillis
2141smh@aluxe.UUCP (henning) (08/24/84)
**** **** From the keys of Steve Henning, AT&T Bell Labs, Reading, PA aluxe!2141smh =>>There are many times when running lights are the optimum. This =>>occurs when it is dark enough that you need lights on the car =>>so that others can see you from far enough away, but not dark =>>enough that you can see better with your headlights on. At these =>>times, headlights *do* often cause glare to oncoming traffic, =>>so why have them on? Headlights never cause glare, dirty windshields and dirty headlights cause glare. Glare is much worse when it gets darker since your eyes open up more to see in the dark and are more sensitive. Headlights are even advisable in broad unadulterated daylight if they prevent one head-on collision from someone who passes because the oncoming car blended with the road or background. Headlights do not blend in. One of the minor purposes of headlights is to illuminate the road. The best time to use headlights is when the sun is setting behind you and the sun is in the eyes of the oncoming drivers. They don't have a prayer of seeing running (or walking) lights; only headlights are effective in preventing accidents then.
prg@mgweed.UUCP (Phil Gunsul) (08/25/84)
<munch...> Seems like all these idiots that drive with their parking lights on are sure noticed by all the people that aren't! After all, the rear lights are no different with 'parking' lights or headlights, and the 'parking' lights people can obviously see you, you have your headlights on... So where's the beef!!!! ;-) Phil Gunsul
hawk@oliven.UUCP (St. Hawkins) (08/25/84)
It could be that they simply didn't push/pull/turn/caress the headlight button/lever/knob/____ all the way. I would guess that they are called parking lights due to the ability to leave them on when parked in dark places. This will make them more visible to other drivers. My VW, may its block melt, will allow the parking lights to be left on without the key but will not permit the same with the headlights. -- hawk (Rick Hawkins @ Olivetti ATC) [hplabs|zehntel|fortune|ios|tolerant|allegra|tymix]!oliveb!oliven!hawk -- rick (Rick Hawkins @ Olivetti ATC) [hplabs|zehntel|fortune|ios|tolerant|allegra|tymix]!oliveb!oliven!hawk
hawk@oliven.UUCP (St. Hawkins) (08/25/84)
It could be that they simply didn't push/pull/turn/caress the headlight button/lever/knob/____ all the way. I would guess that they are called parking lights due to the ability to leave them on when parked in dark places. This will make them more visible to other drivers. My VW, may its block melt, will allow the parking lights to be left on without the key but will not permit the same with the headlights. -- rick (Rick Hawkins @ Olivetti ATC) [hplabs|zehntel|fortune|ios|tolerant|allegra|tymix]!oliveb!oliven!hawk
mr@isrnix.UUCP ( Michael Regoli ) (08/26/84)
Indiana law requires that your *headlights* (not just parking lights)
be on if you are driving between sunset and sunrise. The law further
requires that your headlights be on when driving in poor light or bad
weather conditions that make it difficult for other people to see your
vehicle clearly from a distance of 500 feet.
--
.:.
/.\ Michael Regoli
'|-|` ...ihnp4!inuxc!iuvax!isrnix!mrres@ihuxn.UUCP (Rich Strebendt) (08/27/84)
Once again in response: | Seems like all these idiots that drive with their parking lights on | are sure noticed by all the people that aren't! You betcha ... especially when pulling out to pass with the sun in your eyes and SURPRIZE !!! THERE IT IS ... an almost invisible car running with parking lights!! ... now visible about 3 carlengths dead ahead. Does marvelous things for your bladder control! | After all, the rear | lights are no different with 'parking' lights or headlights, There is a bit of a difference in rates of closure between coming up on someone from behind (say, ~5-10 mph typically if you are gaining on them and both of you are traveling at somewhat reasonable speeds) and if you are approaching head-on (110mph if both of you are coasting along at 55, more if either of you is heavy on the pedal). This difference of ~100mph is the reason that I want to be able to see the on-coming car as far away as possible and why I want him/her to see me as well. | and | the 'parking' lights people can obviously see you, you have your | headlights on... So where's the beef!!!! ;-) For both of us to make decisions based on the best information possible, we BOTH have to see each OTHER!!! Rich Strebendt ...!ihnp4!ihuxn!res
heiser@cca.UUCP (Bill Heiser) (08/27/84)
In New Hampshire, it is illegal to drive with just parking lights on. Headlights (and parking lights) are required from 1/2 hour before sunset to 1/2 hour after sunrise. In Maine, it is "not recommended" that people drive with just parking lights on, although to the best of my knowledge, it is not illegal.
bcdoody@wateng.UUCP (Brian C. Doody) (08/27/84)
[] In Ontario, Canada, it is also illegal to drive with your parking lights on. What I can't figure out is why someone would WANT to? Why not just turn on your headlights??? Heck, I drive with my headlights on during the day often, so others can see me better. In fact, why aren't cars built so that either all your lights are on, or none are? I can't see ANY reason to want just your parking lights on... --- Brian Doody, University of Waterloo bcdoody@wateng ---
bcdoody@wateng.UUCP (Brian C. Doody) (08/27/84)
[] Your arguments for driving with parking lights are weak. I have never been bothered with glare from an oncoming car's lights during the day. The lights increase the visibility opf the car drastically, and the sooner you know your surroundings while driving, the safer you'll be. I can't believe that one would say "you don't NEED to see a car that soon anyway..." (or something to that effect). These are probably the same people who follow 5 feet behind a car, saying "you don't need any more room than that..." --- Brian Doody, University of Waterloo bcdoody@wateng ---
rs55611@ihuxk.UUCP (Robert E. Schleicher) (08/27/84)
"Real headlights" doesn't necessarily mean high-intensity lights. I assume the author of the article that wanted "real headlights" was just referring to European-style headlights, in which you have separate lenses and bulb elements. These lights have several advantages: 1. Since the lenses are more or less permanant, you can style them to fit in better with the car's design, as well as make them more aerodynamic. 2. It's cheaper to replace a halogen bulb element, than a complete halogen sealed-beam unit. 3. The permanant lens can be made with better quality, since it doesn't get tossed whenever a bulb burns out. This allows things like lenses with Z-beam patterns (ie. lower light pattern toward the center of the road, higher light pattern toward the curb) I've got a car with replacement headlights from Cibie (technically illegal for everything but off-road use). They are Z-beams, thus giving better lighting of the road, without blinding the oncoming drivers. When a bulb burns out, it's only about $4-5 for a replacement bulb element. One advantage that sealed-beams were supposed to have was that they allowed more precise aiming of the beams, and didn't change the aim when you replaced them. This may be slightly true, in that the replaceable bulb won't mount in quite the same way as the old one, but I think most of the beam aiming is still due to the lens position, which is fixed. Also, my replacement lenses have the same aiming-machine locating bumps as do sealed-beams. Bob Schleicher ihuxk!rs55611
hasiuk@trwspp.UUCP (08/28/84)
>| and the absurd >| headlight laws in the US. (At least it looks like they're *finally* >| going to make it legal to have real headlights. > >If by "real headlights" you mean the ultra high intensity jobs that are >illegal in most states, then I part company with you again. For >on-coming traffic those lights really are a bad scene. I have often >wished that my car had a 50 caliber mounted in the nose to extinguish >those kinds of lights when I have encountered them. Problem is that >they are so blinding that I would probably miss the lights and get the >driver ... but that probably would not decrease the total intelligence >level of the world much (might even raise it!) [:-)]. > > Rich Strebendt > ...!ihnp4!ihuxn!res I disagree with the point about "real" headlights being blinding. Have you ever looked at the pattern that a pair of Cibie Z-beams (a typical good headlamp) puts on a wall placed in front of the car? Its truly amazing in that above a certain, fairly low point, there is almost no light. Try that with a pair of sealed beams, and you'll find that the light pattern is much more omni-directional. Admittedly, the good headlights put out more light, but most of it is focused exactly where it should be, assuming they were installed properly. Are you really sure that you were "blinded" by these on oncoming cars? I've found that many cars have a generic headlight aiming problem. A good example is the Celica Supra. These things universally blind me, to the point where I can guess one's presence by just looking in the rear-view mirror at night. The reason that non-sealed beam quartz halogen headlamps are illegal for road use, is that the national highway safety board has made it that way. They made their decision based on the recommendation of a panel of experts made up of, you guessed it, people employed by the makers of sealed beam headlamps. After all, much of the US economy survives on the basis of disposable items (many US made cars, for example). Even light bulbs have special additives which makes them blow out after a certain period of time. Why, then, should they sell you a good reflector and a relatively cheap disposable bulb when they can sell you the whole thing everytime your lights burn out. Then, to make that option affordable, they have to make the reflector cheap. Oh, well, I guess that's just good old American auto ingenuity. Lee Hasiuk
wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) (08/29/84)
Regarding the various state laws on headlight or parking/running light use: Does any state FORBID the use of headlights in daylight? Or do they all ignore daylight use and merely mandate use in some definition of darkness? I ask because I am convinced that it is an unsafe practice to use headlights when they are not necessary, yet I have often heard of many organizations asking motorists to drive with their headlights on durning the day to commemorate or call attention to some event or occasion. Maybe this is based on long-obsolete auto technology, but I always believed that your battery did not charge (or charged very little) when your headlights were on, so that extensive driving with the headlights always on would drain the battery. Also, I find headlight glare an annoyance even in daylight, despite some statements to the contrary posted by others. Aside from the prevalence of mis-aimed lights, the simple fact that roads are not flat makes even properly-aimed lights shine directly into the eyes of oncoming motorists or pedestrians every time a car breasts a hill. Certainly headlights should be used when conditions warrant; their use at other times, for whatever reasons, seems unjustifiable. Will
kek@mgweed.UUCP (Kit Kimes) (08/29/84)
In Illinois it is popular to drive around with the parking lights on near dusk, that it is dark enough to tell that they are on but not so dark that headlights are needed. After checking the Rules of the Road booklet, the police could probably stop you if it was dark enough that headlights are needed. Around here, though, it seems that they are pretty lax. As an aside, I would rather have a car with parking lights coming toward me than a car with no lights! That seems to be pretty popular also. Kit Kimes AT&T Consumer Products Montgomery Works Montgomery, Il. 60538-0305 ..!ihnp4!mgweed!kek
rcd@opus.UUCP (08/30/84)
>"Real headlights" doesn't necessarily mean high-intensity lights. I assume >the author of the article that wanted "real headlights" was just referring to >European-style headlights, in which you have separate lenses and bulb elements. >These lights have several advantages: With all due respect, would you PLEASE change the subject line and drop some of the irrelevant references? I'm interested in the matter of high-intensity headlights with useful beam patterns, but it doesn't have beans to do with the original question about people driving with parking lights. -- Dick Dunn {hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd (303)444-5710 x3086 ...I'm not cynical - just experienced.
rcd@opus.UUCP (08/30/84)
>Does any state FORBID the use of headlights in daylight? Or do they all >ignore daylight use and merely mandate use in some definition of darkness? >I ask because I am convinced that it is an unsafe practice to use >headlights when they are not necessary, yet I have often heard of >many organizations asking motorists to drive with their headlights on >durning the day to commemorate or call attention to some event or >occasion... >...Also, I find headlight >glare an annoyance even in daylight, despite some statements to the >contrary posted by others... Interesting point. Certainly high beams are bright enough to affect your eyes even when they're "stopped down" for daylight. I wonder about regular beams. Note, however, that many motorcycles run with headlights on all the time. I'd have to say that this is a good idea given their lesser visibility. -- Dick Dunn {hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd (303)444-5710 x3086 ...I'm not cynical - just experienced.
lrd@drusd.UUCP (08/31/84)
... "Note, however, that many motorcycles run with headlights on all the time. I'd have to say that this is a good idea given their lesser visibility." -- Dick Dunn DOT regulations mandate that all street motorcycles sold in the U.S., and manufactured since 1/1/78 must be arranged so that headlights come on automatically with ignition. Exceptions to this rule are allowed for very low-volume importers. This requirement turned out to be a problem for me; while living and working in Spain on an 18 month assignment, I took delivery of a new BMW motorcycle at the Munich factory delivery center. Since I was bringing the bike back to the U.S. at the end of the assignment, I ordered the USA, rather than a European version, in order to avoid any problems with customs. On several occasions, I was stopped by Spanish police and politely informed that it was NOT LEGAL to drive within city limits with headlights -- running lights (parking lights) only! I solved the problem by buying and retrofitting the standard European left handlebar control module, which includes a headlight switch, to replace the USA version, which has a blanked-out position where the headlight switch should be. I also had to remove the wire that activated the headlight relay whenever the ignition was turned on. On entry to the US, customs checked the manufacturer's ID plate on the chassis to confirm that it was a USA model, but they didn't check to see that it conformed to requirements, so my machine is kind of unique in this country, in that it has a headlight switch.
reid@Cascade.ARPA (09/02/84)
Most Europeans drive in the city with their headlights off, and the other lights on. They call them running lights, not parking lights. They use the headlights instead of a horn; a car will flash at you instead of honk at you (usually). Outside of cities, everybody uses headlights, but because of the custom of driving in cities without them, people often forget, and have very strange ideas of when it is dark enough to need headlights. Brian Reid Stanford
dan@digi-g.UUCP (Dan Messinger) (09/04/84)
> Regarding the various state laws on headlight or parking/running light use: > Does any state FORBID the use of headlights in daylight? Or do they all > ignore daylight use and merely mandate use in some definition of darkness? > I ask because I am convinced that it is an unsafe practice to use > headlights when they are not necessary, yet I have often heard of > many organizations asking motorists to drive with their headlights on > durning the day to commemorate or call attention to some event or > occasion. I thought that it was a law (in some states, at least) that motorcycles and buses must have their headlights on at all times. > Maybe this is based on long-obsolete auto technology, but I always > believed that your battery did not charge (or charged very little) > when your headlights were on, so that extensive driving with the > headlights always on would drain the battery. If driving with your headlights on drains your battery, I suggest that you get a new regulator. Dan Messinger ihnp4!umn-cs!digi-g!dan
ayers@convex.UUCP (09/04/84)
#R:cca:-14400:convex:33000011:000:360 convex!ayers Sep 4 10:20:00 1984 "Note, however, that many motorcycles run with headlights on all the time. I'd have to say that this is a good idea given their lesser visibility." -- Dick Dunn For a real laugh, read the test the DOT used to `prove' better visibility with headlights on (for motorcycles only, of course...). blues, II (you dance with them what brung you)
mikey@trsvax.UUCP (09/05/84)
#R:cca:-14400:trsvax:55200102:000:1153 trsvax!mikey Sep 5 09:00:00 1984 The argument against non-sealed beam headlamps was based on what I believe is a false claim that they can not be focused reliably and repeatably. My 78 CBX came with a non-sealed H-4 that is the brightest light I've ever seen on any vehicle in my life. It's brighter than my dads Plymouth with 4 lights of sealed beam halogen. My bike light also has the finest focus that I've ever seen off of a theater stage. On low beam there is a distinct line of light across the highway. However, I recently popped my high beam (took 6 years) and the replacement cost about $15. There are candle-power limits for cars and bikes. The limits are different depending on how many lights you have for cars. I don't know what they are, but I know they were raised in the mid 70's. Thats why the newer Japan cars have bright lights and BRIGHT tail-lights. I have no idea what the limits are for bikes, and personally I wouldn't care. To me the brightest/best focused light is the safest and I'll put up with the very few inspection stations that even check the intensity level. BTW, most big Hondas since 79 now have the new H-4 lights. mikey at trsvax
jackh@zehntel.UUCP (09/05/84)
> Even light bulbs > have special additives which makes them blow out after a certain period > of time. Why, then, should they sell you a good reflector and a relatively > cheap disposable bulb when they can sell you the whole thing everytime > your lights burn out. I'm afraid I must disagree. My 10 yr old Alfa GTV had both of its original (Italian made) sealed beam headlights until last month when a rock from a truck took out the right one. The replacement bulb cost me $3.98 and there is no noticible difference in light output between the old (left) and new bulbs. I do agree that these are fairly mediocre lighting devices which is why I also have a pair of Marchal driving lamps (which are kept covered except when I am actually using them on back roads). However, the last time I had to replace one of the "cheap disposable" QI bulbs it cost me $12.95! -- Jack Hagerty, Zehntel Inc. !ihnp4!zehntel!jackh
dswankii@uok.UUCP (09/05/84)
#R:cca:-14400:uok:500048:000:868 uok!dswankii Sep 5 11:13:00 1984 Answering Will's question first, a car with a 35 amp. alternator can provide 420 watts of power (P = EI). Headlights use between 50 and 65 watts each depending on the configuration of the lights and the high/low switch setting. Add in the power needed for the parking/clearance lights and the dash lamps and you get something in the range of 200 watts. Maybe 250. Obviously the headlights will not overload the charging system and when you consider that some cars have 100 amp. (1200 watt) alternators, there is plenty of power for lights. As for using lights, it is illegal in Oklahoma to drive with only the parking/ clearance lights on. Also, some two lane roads that have heavy trafic ask that drivers turn on their lights in the day to help prevent head-on wrecks on these roads. David Swank II ctvax!uokvax!uok!dswankii Uniersity of Oklahoma
mikey@trsvax.UUCP (09/07/84)
#R:cca:-14400:trsvax:55200103:000:670 trsvax!mikey Sep 7 09:37:00 1984 As stated before, new motorcycles (with a few exceptions) must have headlights on all the time with ignition. On the older bikes from Honda, there was a 3 phase alternator/generator. When lights were off, only 1 phase was active. When you turned on the headlamps, the other two phases were activated. At fast idle, the charging current on bikes like the CB450K7 was actually higher with the lights on. On my families '68 Buick, the largest charge current was usually obtained with the lights off at fast idle, as the regulator at low rpm would lock at the high charge rate. Once the revs were kicked up, it would cycle from low to high rate. mikey at trsvax