jonnyg@umd5.umd.edu (Jon Greenblatt) (08/24/89)
First of all I finished reviewing CommonView C++. I found it to be mostly broken. The class library is realy bad and the examples won't hold water. I saw a lot of promises in the read.me's that say so much will happen in such a short time that I beleive none of it will happen. Now that I fully understand C++ I feel C++ is to OOPS as COBOL is to stuctured programming! C++ may be an OOPS but it is not a very good one. I got C_Talk in yesturday and I am truly amazed at how rich the environment is. Of all the OOPS I have seen ACTOR has the best syntax, it is intepreted however which does limit you in terms of size and speed. C_talk gives you the ACTOR/SmallTalk like environment with all the power, speed, and flexability of C. C_Talk is compiled so the executable modules are fast. The environment includes a browser which simplifies using the Class heirarchy. The syntax on the OOPS side is a little flakey due to it's similarity to SmallTalk but the language is rich enough that I can ignore that. I gave 5 minute demo of C_Talk to someone in my office and they immediatly stole my second copy of C_Talk and are ready to make it their next programming environment. The final apps produced by C_talk are small, compact, and fast. The class library is rich and the source code is provided! (A REAL PLUS!). In summary I think C_Talk is excellent and I highly recomend it to anyone who wishes a complete OOPS environment in C. JonnyG.
jonnyg@umd5.umd.edu (Jon Greenblatt) (08/24/89)
BTW:
C_Talk is available for MSDOS and C_Talk/Views is the MS Windows
version of C_Talk. C_Talk advertises future ports to X Windows and the
Mac. I believe the ports will happen because C_Talk is written in a
highly portable, compiler independent manner. It already supports
several C compilers on the DOS side and you get complete source code to
the environment.
JonnyG.grg@otter.hpl.hp.com (Gerd Groos) (08/25/89)
In your "CommonView review", you say
1. "I found it to be mostly broken."
2. "The class library is really bad"
3. "The examples won't hold water."
4. "[No improvements] will happen."
5. You don't like C++ (thought you posted a note saying you would
a while ago?)
4. is a speculation.
5. is your opinion - nobody is forced to use a certain programming language
Would you mind translating "mostly broken", "bad", "hold water" into
more technical terms? I just don't understand what you are saying...
From my experience I think it's quite usable. Maybe I just didn't notice
it didn't work?
Some things I would like to know about C_Talk:
- How fast are C_Talk programs compared to C++ programs
- Does C_Talk produce MS Window applications (like CommonView)
- If yes, are you limited to the subset of MS Window functions
implemented in C_Talk or is there a way of accessing the others?
- What makes C_Talks window class library better than CommonViews?
Gerd.jonnyg@umd5.umd.edu (Jon Greenblatt) (08/29/89)
I think I have found out why the CommonView interface to MS Windows is so limited. The OASYS company sells their own windows class system for Glockenspiel C++. They say they support many UNIX systems, DOS, X Windows, MS Windows, and support a windows library for systems that don't support windows like Xenix. With a software product this extensive already written for CommonView it makes sense that Glockenspiel did not put that much effort into their own. Like I said before the Glockenspiel C++ compiler works great. With the availability of the windows libraries from OASYS I think this is a more usable environment than what I previously speculated (given my requirements). I am still waiting for an compiled OOPS with garbage collection. Apparently there is a product out called Eiffel but it may be a little while before it's available in the form I need. BTW Actor is the fasted interpreted language I have ever used and it has met all my needs up to now. At this point my apps are getting into the thousands of lines and I realy something very small and very fast. I would strongly suggest Actor for any reasonable apps. Sorry for the small flame war I started. I learned a lot this last week from my foolishness and I hope others benifited from my little fit. JonnyG.
jonnyg@umd5.umd.edu (Jon Greenblatt) (08/29/89)
In article <5272@umd5.umd.edu> jonnyg@umd5.umd.edu (Jon Greenblatt) writes: > > I think I have found out why the CommonView interface to MS Windows >is so limited. The OASYS company sells their own windows class system ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >for Glockenspiel C++. They say they support many UNIX systems, DOS, X Windows, >MS Windows, and support a windows library for systems that don't support > JonnyG. I saw this add int the August '89 issue of "Computer Language". I called OASYS and they said they DO NOT support the IBM PC or the IBM RT under MS Windows or X Windows. Their add listed these as supported environments and stated that their software is field proven. If anyone would like their number I will be glad to give it out, they were very short with me! Maybe they have been reading my recent net foolishness. JonnyG. I believe everything I read!