pcb@gator.cacs.usl.edu (Peter C. Bahrs) (06/12/90)
Round 2 of questions/comments: In general WIN 3.0 is awesome! (wrt win386, and all of my X envts.) 1) Does win3 give each dos application a virtual 8088 machine when in enhanced mode? I have 9 mb memory (2 real and 8 swap) available and can only run 1 copy of edix and 1 procomm...then is says out of memory, kill an application. Sooooo, the answer to this questions appears to be : ?? no, they still share 640k. 2) Comment: I wish that when I exit program manager, the entire state would be saved...i.e. protocol such that an application gets a save message and a restart message. Changing the background pattern with desktop, If I edit the current background, it will not take effect unless I select another and then reselect the one I want ! So Far winword 1.0, and designer 3.0 work fine (no warnings) in enhanced mode. 3) Are there drivers/monitor configurations that win3.0 will run in super vga mode (i.e. 256 colors simultaneously) without dithering? /*----------- Thanks in advance... --------------------------------------+ | Peter C. Bahrs | | The USL-NASA Project | | Center For Advanced Computer Studies INET: pcb@gator.cacs.usl.edu | | 2 Rex Street | | University of Southwestern Louisiana ...!uunet!dalsqnt!gator!pcb | | Lafayette, LA 70504 | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------*/
markg@cbnewsk.att.com (mark.r.gibaldi) (06/12/90)
In article <9906@rouge.usl.edu> pcb@gator.cacs.usl.edu (Peter C. Bahrs) writes: >Round 2 of questions/comments: > >In general WIN 3.0 is awesome! (wrt win386, and all of my X envts.) > >1) Does win3 give each dos application a virtual 8088 machine when in > enhanced mode? > I have 9 mb memory (2 real and 8 swap) available and can only > run 1 copy of edix and 1 procomm...then is says out of memory, > kill an application. Sooooo, the answer to this questions appears > to be : ?? no, they still share 640k. > Hmm... In systems (OS) that use paged virtual memory as does Win 3.0, virtual memory on disk does have limitations. Programs have a certain number of memory pages which MUST be held in RAM in order for the processing to continue, or be continuable. This is called a "working set". If the working set of your active programs exceed the amout of RAM that you have, all the virtual memory in the world won't do you much good. The above example does not prove that Windows 3.0 does or does not use virtual machines as advertised. It could be merely that the combination of Win 3.0 and the active DOS apps had a total working set greater than could be held by Peter's installed 2mb of RAM. I think we need to hear from some people who have large amounts of memory installed. I have the same setup as Peter on a 25mhz 386. However, I plan to put in much more RAM shortly. Mark R. Gibaldi AT&T Bell Laboratories mrg@cbhlp.att.com
patrickd@chinet.chi.il.us (Patrick Deupree) (06/12/90)
In article <9906@rouge.usl.edu> pcb@gator.cacs.usl.edu (Peter C. Bahrs) writes: >1) Does win3 give each dos application a virtual 8088 machine when in > enhanced mode? > I have 9 mb memory (2 real and 8 swap) available and can only > run 1 copy of edix and 1 procomm...then is says out of memory, > kill an application. Sooooo, the answer to this questions appears > to be : ?? no, they still share 640k. > Windows does give each DOS app a virtual 8088 machine. Most likely the reason you're getting an out of memory error is that there is some file that can't be "shared". What I mean by this is that these two program probably don't support two copies of the program running at once. The reason it says out of memory is probably just an erroneous error message. This is just my hypothesis. >I wish that when I exit program manager, the entire state would >be saved...i.e. protocol such that an application gets a save >message and a restart message. This can be done, sort of. If you use the "load=" or "run=" statements in the win.ini program you can set up programs that will be automatically started when Windows is started. True, it would be interested to have an automatic mechanism to do this. It could get tiresome after a while, though. I can think of a few reasons I wouldn't want it. You could write a simple windows app that would modify your win.ini everytime you exit Windows. Hmm, maybe I'll do it. -- "Organized fandom is composed of a bunch of nitpickers with a thing for trivial pursuit." -Harlan Ellison Patrick Deupree -> patrickd@chinet.chi.il.us
joel@peora.ccur.com (Joel Upchurch) (06/12/90)
> 3) Are there drivers/monitor configurations that win3.0 will run in > super vga mode (i.e. 256 colors simultaneously) without dithering? Paradise has released their 640x480x256 driver I believe. I wonder if pbrush will work in 256 color mode? I wish Paradise would release a driver for their 640x400x256 mode that they have on the VGA+16 card. -- Joel Upchurch/Upchurch Computer Consulting/718 Galsworthy/Orlando, FL 32809 joel@peora.ccur.com {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd,ucf-cs}!peora!joel (407) 859-0982
marshall@wind55.seri.gov (Marshall L. Buhl) (06/13/90)
pcb@gator.cacs.usl.edu (Peter C. Bahrs) writes: >Round 2 of questions/comments: >In general WIN 3.0 is awesome! (wrt win386, and all of my X envts.) I agree. >1) Does win3 give each dos application a virtual 8088 machine when in ^^^^ it's 8086 > enhanced mode? Yes. > I have 9 mb memory (2 real and 8 swap) available and can only > run 1 copy of edix and 1 procomm...then is says out of memory, > kill an application. Sooooo, the answer to this questions appears > to be : ?? no, they still share 640k. Put each program in a separate window. > So Far winword 1.0, and designer 3.0 work fine (no warnings) in > enhanced mode. I have done much WP yet, but WfW did work well for me. I haven't tried any large fonts yet. With Win386, I was always getting out of memory errors, so I went back to Word 5. I was really p*ss*d at MS before beacuse of this. "What is the use of WYSIWYG when it can't display the fonts?" Now I see what they were up to. I sure wish Win3 had come out first. Now I'm going to have to give WfW another try. -- Marshall L. Buhl, Jr. EMAIL: marshall@seri.gov Senior Computer Engineer VOICE: (303)231-1014 Wind Research Branch 1617 Cole Blvd., Golden, CO 80401-3393 Solar Energy Research Institute Solar - safe energy for a healthy future
thaler@shorty.cs.wisc.edu (Maurice Thaler) (06/13/90)
In article <4210@peora.ccur.com> joel@peora.ccur.com (Joel Upchurch) writes: >> 3) Are there drivers/monitor configurations that win3.0 will run in >> super vga mode (i.e. 256 colors simultaneously) without dithering? > >Paradise has released their 640x480x256 driver I believe. I wonder if >pbrush will work in 256 color mode? I wish Paradise would release a >driver for their 640x400x256 mode that they have on the VGA+16 card. >-- >Joel Upchurch/Upchurch Computer Consulting/718 Galsworthy/Orlando, FL 32809 >joel@peora.ccur.com {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd,ucf-cs}!peora!joel (407) 859-0982 I downloaded these drivers off the Paradise BBS and loaded it on my system which has a Paradise PRO VGA with 512K. I then opened up a 256 color PCX file in the Windows 3.0 Paint program and it looked as it should. If anybody is interested in downloading this driver set, I have it posted on Power Board 608-222-8842 which has an HST modem on it. The file is named WIN3_0.exe (great name eh?). It has drivers for all the Paradise VGA video cards. -- Maurice Thaler SYSOP Audio Projects BBS (608) 836-9473 SYSOP Power Board BBS (608) 222-8842
poffen@sj.ate.slb.com (Russ Poffenberger) (06/13/90)
In article <1990Jun12.140525.7945@cbnewsk.att.com> markg@cbnewsk.att.com (mark.r.gibaldi) writes: >In article <9906@rouge.usl.edu> pcb@gator.cacs.usl.edu (Peter C. Bahrs) writes: >>Round 2 of questions/comments: >> >>In general WIN 3.0 is awesome! (wrt win386, and all of my X envts.) >> >>1) Does win3 give each dos application a virtual 8088 machine when in >> enhanced mode? >> I have 9 mb memory (2 real and 8 swap) available and can only >> run 1 copy of edix and 1 procomm...then is says out of memory, >> kill an application. Sooooo, the answer to this questions appears >> to be : ?? no, they still share 640k. >> > >Hmm... In systems (OS) that use paged virtual memory as does Win 3.0, virtual >memory on disk does have limitations. Programs have a certain number of >memory pages which MUST be held in RAM in order for the processing to >continue, or be continuable. This is called a "working set". If the >working set of your active programs exceed the amout of RAM that you have, >all the virtual memory in the world won't do you much good. The above >example does not prove that Windows 3.0 does or does not use virtual machines >as advertised. It could be merely that the combination of Win 3.0 and the >active DOS apps had a total working set greater than could be held by >Peter's installed 2mb of RAM. I think we need to hear from some people >who have large amounts of memory installed. I have the same setup as >Peter on a 25mhz 386. However, I plan to put in much more RAM shortly. > I have a 25Mhz 386 with 8Meg ram. I have been able to get 3 DOS windows and two other windows running DOS applications at once, as well as a number of windows apps. I did not try to open more, but probably could. The statement that non-windows apps must reside entirely in RAM is probably correct. It may be able to swap an ENTIRE virtual session to virtual memory, but I don't know for sure. Russ Poffenberger DOMAIN: poffen@sj.ate.slb.com Schlumberger Technologies UUCP: {uunet,decwrl,amdahl}!sjsca4!poffen 1601 Technology Drive CIS: 72401,276 San Jose, Ca. 95110 (408)437-5254
gpsteffl@sunee.waterloo.edu (Glenn Patrick Steffler) (06/14/90)
In article <1990Jun13.152605.14354@sj.ate.slb.com> poffen@sj.ate.slb.com (Russ Poffenberger) writes: > >The statement that non-windows apps must reside entirely in RAM is probably >correct. It may be able to swap an ENTIRE virtual session to virtual memory, >but I don't know for sure. The only memory which needs to remain resident for a DOS app would be code which handles interrupts. Otherwise it could be paged (of course!). Since Win386 handles all interrupts itself, and the DOS app only sees the virtual interrupt, it would follow that most of the memory allocated to the DOS app would not need to be resident. The number of DOS apps which can be run would most likely be limited to the amount of memory required to store the real-mode interrupt vector handling code for each app. DOS need not appear in every VM as a memory hunk, rather it could appear in only one position in memory with some clever memory mapping (logical mapping) on the 386. I understand this to be the case. Otherwise 16Kb for every DOS app would need to remain resident in the memory. >Russ Poffenberger DOMAIN: poffen@sj.ate.slb.com >Schlumberger Technologies UUCP: {uunet,decwrl,amdahl}!sjsca4!poffen >1601 Technology Drive CIS: 72401,276 >San Jose, Ca. 95110 (408)437-5254 -- Co-Op _____ "Bo doesn't know software" - George Brett Scum _/|__Q_\___ U of | ww--+----#\ "Catch the mystery catch the spit!" - Tom Saywer (Rush) Loo'91 ~~()~~~~~()~~ Glenn Patrick Steffler