[comp.windows.ms] Advice wanted on Windows prototyping tools

tomr@ashtate (Tom Rombouts) (06/02/90)

Now that I have been dragged into the brave new world of 
Windows 3.0 and its SDK, I am seeking on advice on prototyping
tools for Windows.  Essentially, I want to be able to grind out
a bunch of screens and windows and have people play with them a
bit before deciding on a final version (if anything in software
is ever final :-) ) and producing the actual C code.

I am familar with three tools that might do the job, and will now
list my current, perhaps incorrect, impressions of them:

Actor:  Designed for Windows, very compact code, but will require
re-coding for production version.

CASE:W:  Generates C code based on SDK, but a fairly limited
tool, based on a friend who used version 1.20.

Smalltalk/V:  An established language on a variety of platforms,
but may not be usable for production version due to royalty
requirements and my desire to use an existing body of C code.

(C++:  It is my belief that there is not enough Windows C++ code
or classes yet available to even consider this.)


So, there is what I think at the moment.  Any experiences with 
these out there?  Other tools or upgrades I am not familiar with?
And what about C libraries like CommonView or XVT?  (These claim
to work the same on Windows, PM and Mac)  Or is that another
thread?

This would seem appropriate to discuss here, but if I get many
direct responses I will post a summary.


Tom Rombouts,  Torrance Techie   Voice: (213) 538-7108

akm@getafix.cs.uoregon.edu (Anant Kartik Mithal) (06/07/90)

In article <973@ashton.UUCP> tomr@ashton.UUCP (Tom Rombouts) writes:
>Well, my original posting got zero responses.  Maybe everyone
>has already mastered the 3.0 SDK....:-)
>
>Let me rephrase:  Is there a "Dan Bricklin's Demo" type program
>for Microsoft Windows?
>
>Tom Rombouts  Torrance Techie  Voice: (213) 538-7108

Assuming I understand your questions correctly (I don'tknow Dan
Brickin's Demo Program), but presume it is a rapid prototyping system,
well, there are lots of flavors for windows.

The best developed (whatever I mean by that) is Actor, which is very
smalltalk like, except that its' syntax is C-like (not an improvement
in my opinion). Actor produces windows executables.

There is also something called CASE:W, which is supposed to write
C-code, which can be compiled using the SDK.

Infoworld said this week that ParcPlace is putting their smalltalk
onto windows, so you should be able toget Smalltalk 80 for windows
pretty son.

Kartik

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anant Kartik Mithal					akm@cs.uoregon.edu
Department of Computer Science				akm@oregon.BITNET
University of Oregon					

patrickd@chinet.chi.il.us (Patrick Deupree) (06/08/90)

In article <965@ashton.UUCP> tomr@ashton.UUCP (Tom Rombouts) writes:
>[Wants prototyping tool for Windows apps]
>Actor:  Designed for Windows, very compact code, but will require
>re-coding for production version.
I would, of course, recommend Actor for creating the entire app from
prototype to final application phase.  However, my opinion is somewhat
biased since I work for the company.  @:)

>CASE:W:  Generates C code based on SDK, but a fairly limited
>tool, based on a friend who used version 1.20.

If I were you I'd look at WindowsMaker as opposed to CaseW.  Neither will
generate screens for you.  They will only generate windows with a menu
that ties into dialog boxes and/or procedures that you define in C.  If this
is what you want, WindowsMaker is much better than CaseW.

>Smalltalk/V:  An established language on a variety of platforms,
>but may not be usable for production version due to royalty
>requirements and my desire to use an existing body of C code.

Keep in mind that Smalltalk produces an application that runs under a windowing
system.  It does not create a windows application, though.  It creates a window
that creates smalltalk windows within itself.  If you want something that has
the look and feel of a windows app, this wouldn't do it.  If you want an
object oriented language/environment that really kicks butt, then I'd buy
Smalltalk.

>(C++:  It is my belief that there is not enough Windows C++ code
>or classes yet available to even consider this.)

You might be right.

Don't forget about ToolBook.  If you want to create screens quickly this will
do it for you.  You can then use something like Actor to create the code
that will run in the background or that will integrate ToolBook screens.
-- 
"Organized fandom is composed of a bunch of nitpickers with a thing for
 trivial pursuit."  -Harlan Ellison

Patrick Deupree ->	patrickd@chinet.chi.il.us

rburns@cup.portal.com (Randy J Burns) (06/08/90)

I'd take a look at Toolbook from Asymetrix. This is a
very glossy, well thought out product developed with
funding from a co-founder of Microsoft.

scotte@applix.UUCP (Scott Evernden) (06/12/90)

In article <1990Jun7.050104.14224@cs.uoregon.edu> akm@getafix.cs.uoregon.edu (Anant Kartik Mithal) writes:
>Infoworld said this week that ParcPlace is putting their smalltalk
>onto windows, so you should be able toget Smalltalk 80 for windows
>pretty son.

This has been true for at least 6-8 months, ever since ST80 2.5 was released.
Simply set a few environment variables, and ParcPlace Smalltalk-80 runs in
Windows jes' fine...

-scott

tma@osc.COM (Tim Atkins) (06/17/90)

In article <1990Jun7.202442.2687@chinet.chi.il.us> patrickd@chinet.chi.il.us (Patrick Deupree) writes:

>
>Don't forget about ToolBook.  If you want to create screens quickly this will
>do it for you.  You can then use something like Actor to create the code
>that will run in the background or that will integrate ToolBook screens.
>Patrick Deupree ->	patrickd@chinet.chi.il.us

 As I understand it, Toolbook can integrate DLLs into itself.  However, I've
heard that Actor can not create DLLs but only use them.  So I'm a bit confused
as to what you mean about running actor code in the background.  As for 
integrating ToolBook screens,  I don't see how Actor or any external language
could possibly manage to deal with the ToolBook scripts.  I'm flying blind here
but I assume that some run-time ToolBook support must be present for a TB 
screen to operate properly.

 Forgive me if I'm simply misinformed.  Thank you for any clarification of
these questions.


- Tim