krotz@motcid.UUCP (Scott A. Krotz) (08/07/90)
I am having problems running non-windows applications using the 386 enhanced mode of windows 3.0, and it is beginning to drive me nuts. I have a 386SX with 2 meg of ram, AMI Bios, and am running with virtual memory off. When I call up a dos shell with the dos icon, I have about 800k of memory left. However, I cant call up another dos window, it tells me I have "insufficient memory to start application." I also tried creating my own dos window, one that uses about 200k of memory. When I use that PIF, I can call up about two or three of these "small" dos windows, but after that I can't call up any more, even though windows says I have 800k free -- same "Insufficient memory to start application" error. What gives? I am using the program manager "About program manager" option to give me how much memory is left... is this the true amount of memory left? Why can't I start up a dos window that should only take up 200k when I have 800k free? I have the PIF set to be text mode, and not to retain video memory. What are the limitations on how many non-windows applications windows can run? The manual is very vague and non-technical it seems about this information. Please forgive my ignorance, as I am new to windows. Thanks in advance, Scott Krotz ----------------------------------------------------- | email to: UUCP: uunet!motcid!krotz | | Internet: motcid!krotz@uunet.uu.net | -----------------------------------------------------
joonsong@earthquake.Berkeley.EDU (Suk-Hyun Song) (08/07/90)
In article <4319@buff3.UUCP> krotz@motcid.UUCP (Scott A. Krotz) writes: > > I am having problems running non-windows applications using >the 386 enhanced mode of windows 3.0, and it is beginning to >drive me nuts. I have a 386SX with 2 meg of ram, AMI Bios, and >am running with virtual memory off. When I call up a dos shell >with the dos icon, I have about 800k of memory left. However, >I cant call up another dos window, it tells me I have >"insufficient memory to start application." I also tried creating >my own dos window, one that uses about 200k of memory. When >I use that PIF, I can call up about two or three of these "small" >dos windows, but after that I can't call up any more, even though >windows says I have 800k free -- same "Insufficient memory to >start application" error. What gives? I am using the program >manager "About program manager" option to give me how much memory >is left... is this the true amount of memory left? Why can't I >start up a dos window that should only take up 200k when I have >800k free? I have the PIF set to be text mode, and not to retain >video memory. What are the limitations on how many non-windows >applications windows can run? The manual is very vague and >non-technical it seems about this information. Please forgive >my ignorance, as I am new to windows. When you are running in 386 enhanced mode, virtual memory is turned on. Hence, Windows reports that you have 800k of memory left. Unforuntunately, non-windows applications can not run in virtual memory. Windows must allocate physical memory to those applications. On your 2 meg system, you only have a bit over 1 meg left after Windows is loaded. So there is no way for you to run 2 640K dos windows. Joon Song joonsong@ocf.berkeley.edu
pschwart@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Paul Schwartz) (08/08/90)
In article <1990Aug7.164058.3849@agate.berkeley.edu>, joonsong@earthquake.Berkeley.EDU (Suk-Hyun Song) writes... >In article <4319@buff3.UUCP> krotz@motcid.UUCP (Scott A. Krotz) writes: >> >> I am having problems running non-windows applications using >>the 386 enhanced mode of windows 3.0, and it is beginning to >>drive me nuts. >> [stuff...] >>windows says I have 800k free >> [more stuff...] > >When you are running in 386 enhanced mode, virtual memory is turned on. >Hence, Windows reports that you have 800k of memory left. Unforuntunately, >non-windows applications can not run in virtual memory. Windows must >allocate physical memory to those applications. On your 2 meg system, >you only have a bit over 1 meg left after Windows is loaded. So there >is no way for you to run 2 640K dos windows. > This is not true. I have a 386 with 4 megs of RAM and I can open 16 DOS boxes before running out of memory, much more than the 4 megs of actual memory that I have avaliable. I think windows can swap inactive DOS boxes to virtual. My hypotheis as to why you run out of memory is because windows saves some of that memory for itself. When windows apps like paintbrush, write, and notebook get minimized, only a portion of their code stays in memory. DOS boxes when minimized don't free up any memory, therefore there is no memory avaliable for windows functions (some of the 386 management stuff takes heafty memory space). Also, windows does some weird stuff as to where in memory it sticks things. Perhaps there is no contiguous block free for a new DOS box. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PauL M SchwartZ | | | PSCHWART@vms3.macc.wisc.edu | Your message here... | | PSCHWART@wiscmacc.BitNet | only 5$ per post | | (608)255-5702 | | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
heiser@tdw201.ed.ray.com (08/09/90)
In article <4319@buff3.UUCP> krotz@motcid.UUCP (Scott A. Krotz) writes: > >start application" error. What gives? I am using the program >manager "About program manager" option to give me how much memory >is left... is this the true amount of memory left? Why can't I I don't know where that figure comes from in the free memory field... but it is *DEFINITELY* NOT referring to REAL memory... On my 386/25 with 8MB, Windows reports that I have over 11MB free!! :-) Maybe Windows 3.0 is better than I thought :-) -- Bill Heiser Work: heiser@tdw201.ed.ray.com {decuac,necntc,uunet}!rayssd!tdw201!heiser Home: Bill.Heiser@f240.n322.z1.fidonet.org (Fidonet 1:322/240) The Think_Tank BBS (508)655-3848 1200/2400/9600-HST Other: 75106.2332@compuserve.com Other: heiser@world.std.com (Public Access Unix)
joonsong@tornado.Berkeley.EDU (Suk-Hyun Song) (08/09/90)
In article <4162@dogie.macc.wisc.edu> pschwart@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Paul Schwartz) writes: >>When you are running in 386 enhanced mode, virtual memory is turned on. >>Hence, Windows reports that you have 800k of memory left. Unforuntunately, >>non-windows applications can not run in virtual memory. Windows must >>allocate physical memory to those applications. On your 2 meg system, >>you only have a bit over 1 meg left after Windows is loaded. So there >>is no way for you to run 2 640K dos windows. >> > >This is not true. I have a 386 with 4 megs of RAM and I can open 16 DOS boxes >before running out of memory, much more than the 4 megs of actual memory that >I have avaliable. I think windows can swap inactive DOS boxes to virtual. >My hypotheis as to why you run out of memory is because windows saves some of >that memory for itself. When windows apps like paintbrush, write, and notebook >get minimized, only a portion of their code stays in memory. DOS boxes when >minimized don't free up any memory, therefore there is no memory avaliable >for windows functions (some of the 386 management stuff takes heafty memory >space). Also, windows does some weird stuff as to where in memory it sticks >things. Perhaps there is no contiguous block free for a new DOS box. Non-windows applications must be run in physical memory. They can not run in virtual memory as can Windows applications. However if a non-Windows program is configured to not run in the background, they can be swapped to disk when they are not in the foreground. You can open as many of these DOS boxes as the swapfile can hold. But only one of these can be run at a time, and I didn't buy a 386 to have DOS boxes swapped to disk. I could done that just as easily with a 286. One of the main advantages of the 386 is that it supports demand paged memory. But this feature is not available for non- Windows applications. If you want to multitask non-Windows applications, you must have enough memory to keep all of the programs in physical memory. It doesn't matter how much virtual memory you have. So, my point that you can't multitask two 640K non-Windows applications on a 2 meg system is still valid. Non-windows applications can not run in virtual memory. Joon Song joonsong@ocf.berkeley.edu
oppenhei@umd5.umd.edu (Richard Oppenheimer) (08/11/90)
In article <2030@sud509.ed.ray.com> heiser@tdw201.ed.ray.com writes: >In article <4319@buff3.UUCP> krotz@motcid.UUCP (Scott A. Krotz) writes: >> >>start application" error. What gives? I am using the program >>manager "About program manager" option to give me how much memory >>is left... is this the true amount of memory left? Why can't I > >I don't know where that figure comes from in the free memory field... but >it is *DEFINITELY* NOT referring to REAL memory... On my 386/25 with >8MB, Windows reports that I have over 11MB free!! :-) Maybe Windows 3.0 >is better than I thought :-) I am sorry, but I have to do this. So many people have already discussed this for months now and it is mentioned in all the literature. RTFM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Windows 3.0 provides virtual memory on 386 and 486 machines. -- Computer Science Center Richard Oppenheimer University of Maryland oppenhei@umd5.umd.edu (office) College Park, Maryland ,USA richard@wam.umd.edu (home) ****** My employer cares not what I think and knows not what I say. ********