MBT3@PSUVM.PSU.EDU ("Mike Tierney") (09/06/90)
IBM has confused me once again. At a exposition here at Penn State, they
showed me a 386sx model 55 ps/2 running windows. Since I only have a 286
machine, I was interested in seeing the 386 Enhanced mode of windows and
running a DOS-app in a window just to see how well it worked. I made sure
it was in 386 Enhanced mode, then double-clicked the DOS Prompt icon. It
then proceeded to shell out from windows to the dos prompt, just as it does
on my 286 in standard mode. I exited, and once again made sure it was in
Enhanced mode.. it was indeed, and had plenty of free memory. I've seen
posts from people who say that they run multiple DOS Prompt windows in
386 Enhanced.. so basically I'm wondering: what was wrong? IS it possible
to run the dos prompt in a window? Or was it just Windows wasn't set up
correctly on the machine i was using? Maybe a missing PIF file that would
give windows the necessary information needed to launch it in a window?
I was thinking of upgrading to a 386(sx), but if you can't work from the
DOS prompt in a window, then the upgrade would really be basically pointless.
Anyone have any insights on this? Thanks,
Mike
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Tierney "Any technology without some attendant risk
<MBT3@PSUVM.PSU.EDU> of misuse is probably trivial" - Louise Kohlspolsky-joel@cs.yale.edu (Joel Spolsky) (09/06/90)
In article <9009052355.AA21062@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> MBT3@PSUVM.PSU.EDU ("Mike Tierney") writes: | I've seen posts from people who say that they run multiple DOS | Prompt windows in 386 Enhanced.. so basically I'm wondering: | what was wrong? All you have to do is hit Alt-Enter to go from full-screen DOS to a window or back. Yes, you can use PIF's to make this the default. Joel Spolsky spolsky@cs.yale.edu Talk Hard.
goodearl@world.std.com (Robert Goodearl) (09/07/90)
To turn a full-screen dos application into a windowed one, press Alt-Return. To start a DOS app as a window, you do need to specify that in a pif file. -- Bob Goodearl -- goodearl@world.std.com
ABishop@massey.ac.nz (A.G. Bishop) (09/07/90)
In reply to Mike Tierney's note Joel Spolsky writes: >All you have to do is hit Alt-Enter to go from full-screen DOS to a >window or back. Yes, you can use PIF's to make this the default. I found people talking about popping up a Dos *window* confusing until I went back to the manual too. When I have the Dos prompt in a window I get funny characters, once the screen scrolls the new "blank lines" have smiley faces, etc. instead of blanks. I seem to get a series of Ascii 0's then 1's and so on. Has anybody else noticed/suffered/solved this problem? -- A.G.Bishop@massey.ac.nz | The opinions, policies and biases | inflicted upon the Gentle Reader Computer Centre | herein are mine. Massey University | Palmerston North, N.Z. |
poffen@sj.ate.slb.com (Russ Poffenberger) (09/07/90)
In article <9009052355.AA21062@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> MBT3@PSUVM.PSU.EDU ("Mike Tierney") writes: >IBM has confused me once again. At a exposition here at Penn State, they >showed me a 386sx model 55 ps/2 running windows. Since I only have a 286 >machine, I was interested in seeing the 386 Enhanced mode of windows and >running a DOS-app in a window just to see how well it worked. I made sure >it was in 386 Enhanced mode, then double-clicked the DOS Prompt icon. It >then proceeded to shell out from windows to the dos prompt, just as it does >on my 286 in standard mode. I exited, and once again made sure it was in >Enhanced mode.. it was indeed, and had plenty of free memory. I've seen >posts from people who say that they run multiple DOS Prompt windows in >386 Enhanced.. so basically I'm wondering: what was wrong? IS it possible >to run the dos prompt in a window? Or was it just Windows wasn't set up >correctly on the machine i was using? Maybe a missing PIF file that would >give windows the necessary information needed to launch it in a window? >I was thinking of upgrading to a 386(sx), but if you can't work from the >DOS prompt in a window, then the upgrade would really be basically pointless. >Anyone have any insights on this? Thanks, > The problem is that by default, there is no "pif" file for DOS, so even in enhanced mode, it uses the default which implies full screen. Note that is is not "shelling" out to dos, just giving the app (DOS) the entire screen. To run multiple DOS boxes in separate windows, you need to make a "pif" file that runs "command.com", and specifies NOT to run full screen, and allows background processing while open. I have mine setup to start 4dos, and that works great. Russ Poffenberger DOMAIN: poffen@sj.ate.slb.com Schlumberger Technologies UUCP: {uunet,decwrl,amdahl}!sjsca4!poffen 1601 Technology Drive CIS: 72401,276 San Jose, Ca. 95110 (408)437-5254
bdlepla@engin.umich.edu (Bryan Dennis Lepla) (09/07/90)
In article <1990Sep6.222151.15840@sj.ate.slb.com>, poffen@sj.ate.slb.com (Russ Poffenberger) writes: > In article <9009052355.AA21062@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> MBT3@PSUVM.PSU.EDU ("Mike Tierney") writes: > >IBM has confused me once again. At a exposition here at Penn State, they > >showed me a 386sx model 55 ps/2 running windows. Since I only have a 286 > >machine, I was interested in seeing the 386 Enhanced mode of windows and > >running a DOS-app in a window just to see how well it worked. I made sure > >it was in 386 Enhanced mode, then double-clicked the DOS Prompt icon. It > >then proceeded to shell out from windows to the dos prompt, just as it does > >on my 286 in standard mode. I exited, and once again made sure it was in > >Enhanced mode.. it was indeed, and had plenty of free memory. I've seen > >posts from people who say that they run multiple DOS Prompt windows in > >386 Enhanced.. so basically I'm wondering: what was wrong? IS it possible > >to run the dos prompt in a window? Or was it just Windows wasn't set up > >correctly on the machine i was using? Maybe a missing PIF file that would > >give windows the necessary information needed to launch it in a window? > >I was thinking of upgrading to a 386(sx), but if you can't work from the > >DOS prompt in a window, then the upgrade would really be basically pointless. > >Anyone have any insights on this? Thanks, > I was under the impression that you could only use the Enhanced mode on a 386 machine. I can't seem to get any DOS apps in a window on my 286. Any Clues?
marshall@wind55.seri.gov (Marshall L. Buhl) (09/08/90)
goodearl@world.std.com (Robert Goodearl) writes: >To turn a full-screen dos application into a windowed one, press Alt-Return. >To start a DOS app as a window, you do need to specify that in a pif file. I am under the impression that this will work only for those applications that use DOS calls to write to screen. Any program that writes directly to screen memory will work only in full screen mode. This includes just about all commercial software. -- Marshall L. Buhl, Jr. EMAIL: marshall@seri.gov Senior Computer Missionary VOICE: (303)231-1014 Wind Research Branch 1617 Cole Blvd., Golden, CO 80401-3393 Solar Energy Research Institute Solar - safe energy for a healthy future
marshall@wind55.seri.gov (Marshall L. Buhl) (09/08/90)
Earlier, I foolishly wrote: >goodearl@world.std.com (Robert Goodearl) writes: >>To turn a full-screen dos application into a windowed one, press Alt-Return. >>To start a DOS app as a window, you do need to specify that in a pif file. >I am under the impression that this will work only for those >applications that use DOS calls to write to screen. Any program that >writes directly to screen memory will work only in full screen mode. >This includes just about all commercial software. Fortunately, Doug McDonald wrote me that I was wrong. I hadn't been able to run PC Word 5.0 in a window, but that was because I was trying to run in VGA graphics mode. When in text mode, it does work. I suppose it will also work in CGA graphics mode too. One of the days I'll get around to reading the WHOLE manual instead of bits and pieces. If only my users would leave me alone for a month or two... Sorry for the misinformation. -- Marshall L. Buhl, Jr. EMAIL: marshall@seri.gov Senior Computer Missionary VOICE: (303)231-1014 Wind Research Branch 1617 Cole Blvd., Golden, CO 80401-3393 Solar Energy Research Institute Solar - safe energy for a healthy future
strobl@gmdzi.UUCP (Wolfgang Strobl) (09/08/90)
marshall@wind55.seri.gov (Marshall L. Buhl) writes: >goodearl@world.std.com (Robert Goodearl) writes: >>To turn a full-screen dos application into a windowed one, press Alt-Return. >>To start a DOS app as a window, you do need to specify that in a pif file. >I am under the impression that this will work only for those >applications that use DOS calls to write to screen. Any program that >writes directly to screen memory will work only in full screen mode. >This includes just about all commercial software. Wrong. In Enhanced mode (see subject line), any program that runs in text mode and writes directly to screen memory, or runs in a lower resolution supported graphics mode (compared to the mode used by the Windows video driver) and writes directly to the screen memory will work in a window. For example, on this machine (386, Tseng based super VGA, generic 800*600*16-driver) I can use SCREEN 1 =320*200 and Screen 2 =640*200 of BASIC in a window (I don't program in BASIC anymore, but it comes handy to try such things out). If memory serves me right, I can run standard EGA resolution graphic programs on the 8514/A in my office, in a windows. But screen updates are s l o w. It is a very valuable feature, nevertheless. And I like the ability of Windows to adjust to text mode switching between different text modes (# of lines) dynamically, too. I miss the ability to start old DOS applications maximized in a window, (this should be a PIF flag) and am not satisfied with the handling of the window positioning for maximized windows (one looses the window position after minimizing, it comes up top left so that one has to go through restore, maximize). I think its a bug, because Maximize and Restore do the same when enlarging a minimized window. (I hope I got the operation names correct, it's named "Wiederherstellen", "Symbol" and "Vollbild" in the German version of Windows. The context should explain what I mean). Wolfgang Strobl #include <std.disclaimer.hpp>
spolsky-joel@cs.yale.edu (Joel Spolsky) (09/08/90)
In article <marshall.652731707@wind55> marshall@wind55.seri.gov (Marshall L. Buhl) writes: >goodearl@world.std.com (Robert Goodearl) writes: >>To turn a full-screen dos application into a windowed one, press Alt-Return. >I am under the impression that this will work only for those >applications that use DOS calls to write to screen. You are under a mistaken impression; that is simply not true. On a 386 Windows intercepts direct screen writes and converts them to window draws. On a 286 DOS app's won't run in a window. In the old days, Windows/286 could put programs that used the bios for screen output in windows, and Windows/386 could put any program into a window. The ability to intercept BIOS screen output functions on a 286 was eliminated from Win3 because it is so useless. Joel Spolsky spolsky@cs.yale.edu Talk Hard.
andrew@b11.ingr.com (Poor Mr. Potter) (09/10/90)
ABishop@massey.ac.nz (A.G. Bishop) writes: >In reply to Mike Tierney's note Joel Spolsky writes: >>All you have to do is hit Alt-Enter to go from full-screen DOS to a >>window or back. Yes, you can use PIF's to make this the default. >I found people talking about popping up a Dos *window* confusing until I >went back to the manual too. >When I have the Dos prompt in a window I get funny characters, once the >screen scrolls the new "blank lines" have smiley faces, etc. instead of >blanks. I seem to get a series of Ascii 0's then 1's and so on. >Has anybody else noticed/suffered/solved this problem? Yes. Try loading the ansi.sys driver during boot-up, if you're not already. That worked for me, as far as the funny characters go, but I still can't go directly to a window using a PIF. I get a message saying the application can't be run in a window. But if I run without the PIF, I can start full screen and go to a window via alt-enter. >-- >A.G.Bishop@massey.ac.nz | The opinions, policies and biases > | inflicted upon the Gentle Reader >Computer Centre | herein are mine. >Massey University | >Palmerston North, N.Z. | -- -------------------------------- Andrew Potter
jls@hsv3.UUCP (James Seidman) (09/10/90)
In article <3317@gmdzi.UUCP> strobl@gmdzi.UUCP (Wolfgang Strobl) writes: >And I like the ability of Windows to adjust to text mode switching >between different text modes (# of lines) dynamically, too. >I miss the ability to start old DOS applications maximized in a window, Maybe you convince some developer to write an alternative to the program manager which will allow this... >(this should be a PIF flag) and am not satisfied with the handling >of the window positioning for maximized windows (one looses the >window position after minimizing, it comes up top left so that >one has to go through restore, maximize). I think its a bug, >because Maximize and Restore do the same when enlarging a minimized >window. From what I've heard (which may or may not be correct), it was a decision made by Microsoft. Apparently the structure which holds window information would have required one more entry to maintain the position through maximizing. Now, considering that you need a couple megs to run windows in the first place, saving a couple of words per window seems like being a little penny-wise and pound-foolish. Hopefully they'll fix this in 3.1 (as well as having a PIF flag for starting apps maximized). -- Jim Seidman (Drax), the accidental engineer. UUCP: ames!vsi1!headland!jls ARPA: jls%headland.UUCP@ames.nasa.arc.gov